Croats ARE true Aryans (Iranian origins)

[CroatPower]

Philology: Croats as Hrvatis
Let us commence our investigation with the Croats. The science of linguistics provides several connections with Iran. Thus, the Croats of Croatia call themselves "Hrvati" and their country "Hrvatska", whence the Croatian domain name on the internet is .hr. The name "Hrvati" is derived from the Avestan province "Harahvaiti" (Greek: "Arachosia"). The scientific philological argument for the identification of the Croats with the Haravatis is given in (Sakac 1955, pp. 33-36; Sakac 1949, 1937) As Dvornik notes, "P.S.Sakac thinks that he discovered the name 'Croats' in Darius' inscriptions from the sixth century B.C. There an old Persian province and people are mentioned, called Harahvaitai, Harahvatis, Horohoati..." (Dvornik 1956, p.26) Further, the Roman leader Ammanius Marcellinus mentioned that two cities arose in ancient Persia called Habroatis and Chroates. In this regard, Prof. Mandic writes,

"The Croats of the Don, then had to come in ancient times from Iran. On a stone inscription of the King Darius (522-486 B.C.) the nation of the Haruavat-is appears among the 23 subject nations. The Persian sacred books of the Avesti (Vendidad) call that nation the Harahvaiti. The provinces settled by that nation encompassed in those times the southern half of modern south Afghanistan, the whole of Baluchistan and the eastern part of modern Iran. In that ancient province ought we to look for the paleo-fatherland of the modern Croats." (Mandic 1970, Chapter 1)

Furthermore, the name of the Croatian capital, Zagreb, is related to the Zagros mountain range of Iran. The Dinara mountains in Dalmatia and the Dinar currency may be connected to Mount Dinar (Dene) of Iran. The name Serbia is similar to the Seropi or Surappi River in Elam. Moreover, certain authorities note that the name of the Carpathian mountains is derived from Croatia:

"Here the Iranian Croats mingled with the numerous local Slavic tribes and adopted the Slavic language from them. Meanwhile after the collapse of the Hunnic Empire the Croats organized the local Slavs into a state and gave them their national name. Before the invasion of the Avars ca. 560 the White or Western Croats created along with the Antes a great state extending north of the Carpathians from the upper Elbe to the upper Dniester. (35: Niederle, 263-266; Dvornik, The Slavs, 277-297) R. Heinzel is of the opinion that the Carpathians of the old Germanic Hervarsaga took their name from the Croats who called them the Harvate mountains i.e. Croatian mountains. (36: Heinzel, 499; Dvornik, op. cit., 284, sq.)" (Mandic 1970, Ch.1)

Indeed, philologists trace the migration of the Croats from Harahvati (Arachosia, Sarasvati) in the following manner using fossil place-names along the path of migration:

• Harahvaiti and Harauvati in Iran and Afghanistan
• Hurravat and Hurrvuhe in Armenia and Georgia
• Horoouathos in Azova and the Black Sea
• Present day Croats Horvati and Hrvati along the Adriatic

It is important to note that the Avesta - the sacred scriptures of the ancient Aryan Zoroastrians - mentions the lands settled by the Iranic peoples. Hapta-Hindawa (ie. the Punjab, "Sapta-Sindhu" in Prakrit) is mentioned in the Avesta amongst the Irano-Aryan lands. Even today, the Punjab is the primary home of the Jats. Since the Croats are named after the Harahvaiti or Sarasvati River, and the Jats are the present-day inhabitants of the lost Harahvaiti, it would appear that Jats and Croats would be very closely related indeed.

Vexillology
Further compelling evidence comes from vexillology (the scientific study of flags). Thus, the Croatian flag is based on the chessboard, whence many Croatian historians consider Croats as eponymic descendants of the Sassanid chess master & minister Bozorgmehr, just as the Kambojas are eponymic descendants of Cambyses and Georgians are viewed as the eponymic descendants of King George II. In this regard, Prof. Mandic notes,

"Ancient Croatian folk art bears eastern and Iranian traces, particularly the Croatian "troplets". The Croats also brought over from Iran their national coat of arms with its 64 red and white checkers. (11: Strzycowskyi, 15-63, 156-181; Dado-Peranic, op.cit., 21-24; Mandic Hrvatski kockasti grb, 639-652)" (Mandic 1970, Ch.1)

Furthermore,

"The organization of the state among the southern Croats with the king, bans and zupans at its head similar to that of the northern Croats; in addition the religion, national customs, dress and arts of the southern Croats bear Iranian traces, just like the Croats in the north. " (Mandic 1970, ch.3)

Indeed, a total of 120 Croat and non-Croat university professors and several academics have published 249 research works elaborating the Old Iranic origin of Croats (Tomicic 1998).

Folklore
A researcher notes similarities in folklore as well,

"There are old Croatian customs and national poems that have been cited as evidencing lingering traces of the fire and sun worship of the Iranians. Fire, the essence of human origin, the sun, and the great boiling cauldron around which the warriors spring in the age old kolo or circle dance, all these are ingredients in the national lore of the Croatian nation. The Croat vilas or fairy witches resemble the peris of Iranian mythology. Then there is the legendary Sviato zov, the personification of strength, a being almost too huge for the earth to bear. He is strongly reminiscent of the "elephant-bodied" Rustum of Persian legend." (Guldescu 1964, pt.1.II)

Research studies on Croatian clothing reveals similarities with Sassanian and other Iranic styles both in terms of male and female clothing.

White Croatia, Red Croatia, Green Croatia
The Iranic origin of Croats is in fact the only way one can comprehend the traditional distinction existing between White Croatia, Red Croatia and Green Croatia:

"After the Iranian fashion the ancient Croats ascribed a specific colour to each of the four cardinal points of the compass in the territory which they inhabited. The colour white designated the west, red the south, green the east, and black the north. (10: Saussure, Le Systeme 235-297; idem, L'origine des noms 23; Sakac, op. cit., 37-40) Hence White or West Croatia, Red or South Croatia and Green or East Croatia." (Mandic 1970, Ch.1)

Further, Dobrovich notes,

"It should be noted that only the thesis of the Iranian origin of the Croats can explain the name "Horvath", the title of a Croat dignitary Banus, the names "White" and "Red Croatian", and the Bogumile phenomenon. According to this theory, the Croats were a branch of the Caucasian Iranians, who lived somewhere in the western Caucasus during the era of the Roman Emperors. The Caucasian Anten were another branch of this group." (Dobrovich 1963)

Let us conclude this section on Croats with the words of the learned Prof. Mandic: "The oldest historical evidence, the ancient Croatian social organization, religion, national customs and art indicate that the Croats are of Iranian origin." (Mandic 1970, Concl.)


Personally I dislike slavs and I dont see myself as slav. I and every croat I know look german like. I am proud to say I am Aryan even though it is also known that Croats have been mixed with austrians and italians since the croatian part called Dalmatia has been italian for hundreds of years.

Croats are NOT slavs and never will be and I am greatful for this.

[CroatPower]

And also (addition for the ignorant)...

"the Croats were a branch of the Caucasian Iranians, who lived somewhere in the western Caucasus during the era of the Roman Emperors."

[Zrinski]

Only Croatian name is of Iranian(Aryan) origin so you can hardly call the population Iranian or Germanic since they are not both. Truth to be siad there are some minor celto-germanic leftovers in northwestern Croatia, but they make only about 10% of Croatian population. The rest are Slavs(29%) proto-Illyrians(45%) and Mediterranids(Greeks and Anatolians 15%).

[Übersoldat]

Christ, not another thread about Croat origins!

Ill better make things easier for Triglav and Slav-Anthro gang and post the mongolian article my self:


Mitochondrial DNA polymorphism was analysed in a sample of 108 Croatians from the Adriatic Island isolate of Hvar. Besides typically European varieties of human maternal lineages, haplogroup F was found in a considerable frequency (8.3%). This haplogroup is most frequent in southeast Asia but has not been reported before in Europe. The genealogical analysis of haplogroup F cases from Hvar suggested founder effect. Subsequent field work was undertaken to sample and analyse 336 persons from three neighbouring islands (Brac, Korcula and Krk) and 379 more persons from all Croatian mainland counties and to determine if haplogroup F is present in the general population. Only one more case was found in one of the mainland cities, with no known ancestors from Hvar Island. The first published phylogenetic analysis of haplogroup F worldwide is presented, applying the median network method, suggesting several scenarios how this maternal lineage may have been added to the Croatian mtDNA pool. source: http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Tolk2001.pdf

Worthy of note is the finding of considerable frequency of haplogroup P*(xM173) in the population of the island of Hvar. According to Wells et al 44 this lineage displays a maximum in Central Asia while being rare in Europe, Middle East and East Asia. Its presence in Hvar recapitulates our finding of mtDNA haplogroup F on the island of Hvar and in mainland Croatian population that is virtually absent in Europe but, again, common in populations from Central and Eastern Asia. 51 There are several possibilities for the occurrence of the ancestral lineage of M173. One is the well-documented alliance of Avars (a Mongol people) and Slavs (Croatians) that followed Avar arrival to the eastern Adriatic in 6th century AD. The other is the expansion of the Ottoman Empire from the 16th to 18th century AD when refugees from the western Balkan frequently immigrated to the islands. Lastly, the ancient Silk Road linking China with western Asia and Europe could be a possible path of P(xM173) lineage, too. Any of these migratory patterns could have introduced this mutation to the investigated population. source: http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Barac2003.pdf

We're all Mongols from Hvar, and we all look like this:



Happy now?

[Triglav]

Christ, not another thread about Croat origins!

Ill better make things easier for Triglav and Slav-Anthro gang and post the mongolian article my self:

Slander. There is no such thing as the aforementioned "gang". Not everyone is a gangster like you. Don't judge others by your own actions.

Mitochondrial DNA polymorphism was analysed in a sample of 108 Croatians from the Adriatic Island isolate of Hvar. Besides typically European varieties of human maternal lineages, haplogroup F was found in a considerable frequency (8.3%). This haplogroup is most frequent in southeast Asia but has not been reported before in Europe. The genealogical analysis of haplogroup F cases from Hvar suggested founder effect. Subsequent field work was undertaken to sample and analyse 336 persons from three neighbouring islands (Brac, Korcula and Krk) and 379 more persons from all Croatian mainland counties and to determine if haplogroup F is present in the general population. Only one more case was found in one of the mainland cities, with no known ancestors from Hvar Island. The first published phylogenetic analysis of haplogroup F worldwide is presented, applying the median network method, suggesting several scenarios how this maternal lineage may have been added to the Croatian mtDNA pool. source: http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Tolk2001.pdf

Worthy of note is the finding of considerable frequency of haplogroup P*(xM173) in the population of the island of Hvar. According to Wells et al 44 this lineage displays a maximum in Central Asia while being rare in Europe, Middle East and East Asia. Its presence in Hvar recapitulates our finding of mtDNA haplogroup F on the island of Hvar and in mainland Croatian population that is virtually absent in Europe but, again, common in populations from Central and Eastern Asia. 51 There are several possibilities for the occurrence of the ancestral lineage of M173. One is the well-documented alliance of Avars (a Mongol people) and Slavs (Croatians) that followed Avar arrival to the eastern Adriatic in 6th century AD. The other is the expansion of the Ottoman Empire from the 16th to 18th century AD when refugees from the western Balkan frequently immigrated to the islands. Lastly, the ancient Silk Road linking China with western Asia and Europe could be a possible path of P(xM173) lineage, too. Any of these migratory patterns could have introduced this mutation to the investigated population. source: http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Barac2003.pdf

A fact but insignificant in the greater picture.

We're all Mongols from Hvar, and we all look like this:



Happy now?

Slander and a lie again. You slander me and lie about me all the time. It was I who pointed out that they do not look like average Croatians - in fact I've always pointed out that they are most likely not Croats - just like you did.

Here are just two instances:

http://www.forums.skadi.net/viewtopi...er=asc&start=0
http://www.forums.skadi.net/showpost...&postcount=148

You're barking up the wrong tree again. You hate me because I'm Slovenian, but I'm not the evil ugly Bolshevik from your Ustasa bedtime stories, and you're not the noble freedom fighter.

[Übersoldat]

Victory over Awars:

Vojnomir (c.790 - c.800)

Vojnomir (dux) appeared on the political scene when much of Central and Southern Europe was being raided by the Avars. Croatia fell victim to numerous attacks and many of its towns and cities were destroyed. In 791 Vojnomir assembled an army and launched a joint counteroffensive with Frankish troops under King Charlemagne. Despite the Avars' military superiority (largest cavalry in Europe), he drove them out of Northern Croatia and recompensed Charlemagne by recognising Frankish suzerainty. Vojnomir and Charlemagne continued the offensive beyond Croatia's borders and dealt the Avars a crushing defeat on the plains of present-day Hungary in 796.

Byzantine Emperor Constantine Porphyrogenitus noted Croatia's victory over the Avars in his treatise on foreign affairs: De Administrando Imperio. He also mentioned the difficult wars fought between Avars and Croats when the latter first settled in the Roman provinces of Illyricum and Pannonia in the 620s.

Archaeologists have discovered numerous tools and weapons used by the Croats in their wars against the Avars. At the time it was customary for Croatian warriors to be buried with their weapons. Various swords, shields, arrowheads, knives, axes, spearheads, chains, spurs and buckles have been excavated from sites near Zagreb, Velika Gorica, Varazdin, Cakovec, Koprivnica, Slavonski Brod, Knin, Benkovac, Koljane, Nin, and Prijedor.

However the practice of burying objects with the dead was not limited to warriors. Women were quite often buried with elegant gold and silver earings, necklaces, pendants, bracelets and rings. Interestingly, a grave near Nin was found to contain goblets, a glass carafe and silver coins. This ancient Croatian tradition rapidly disappeared in the early 800s; around the time they converted to Christianity. It is widely believed that Vojnomir himself was Christian but the date of his conversion is unknown. Many of these artefacts are on display at the Archaeological Museum in Zagreb and Museum of Croatian Archaeological Monuments in Split.

http://members.tripod.com/royalcroatia/vojnomir.htm

[Vojvoda]

Why don't Croats just stop speaking a Slavic language altogether,throw in some Iranian and Gothic words here and there,do something please! As Shapur would say, "Shooby doo wee,shooby doo waa" or something like that

[CroatPower]

Only Croatian name is of Iranian(Aryan) origin so you can hardly call the population Iranian or Germanic since they are not both. Truth to be siad there are some minor celto-germanic leftovers in northwestern Croatia, but they make only about 10% of Croatian population. The rest are Slavs(29%) proto-Illyrians(45%) and Mediterranids(Greeks and Anatolians 15%).

That may be true, I could not say I know for sure since I am not an scientist myself but I believe they have a point. I have some Iranian friends and when I look at them I can sort of see a recemblense. They look very European like and thinking about how they would have mixed with germans and so forth I do believe it could be true. It sounds nice to "Croats, the true aryans". ;-)

Anyways whatever can be said I am sure about one thing, true Croats are NOT slavs. I see no recemblens when looking at other slavic people and Croatians. I for one dont look slavic at all and nor does my friends. We look more Swedish like. Not one single person have ever even guessed I am from any other part of the world then northern Europe. The same thing cant be said about serbs. They are much darker and "rubust". There is a big difference even my friend who is Italian can see it.

[Shapur]

The genetic of Croats show that they were the old Aryan ruler caste of Europe.
Look on old Slavs. Their leaders were black haired, tall, yellow/green/brown eyed people. This look you can find under every Croate more or less.
Also we know that the Croats have a strong conection to Sarmatians!
Nothing speak against an Aryan origin of Croats maybe als an eastern Aryan influence of different Iranian tribes.
It show only that the Croats are like most Iranians of different Aryan origin.
The mummies who were found in south Russia of Sarmatians were highheaded, tall, black/brown haired who look like some Croats of Iranians I know.
Also the fact that the Greeks/Romanians wrote about their Iranian origin speak for an Aryan origin of Croats and southeastern Europeans.
The Bulgars are also an Iranian tribe. I know a Bulgar and he looks 90% simmilar to me. Tall, highhead, has a hooked nose, black hairs.
The only thing what is not on him pure Aryan is a little mongolian appearance.
The Slavs are called by old Iranians as slave which explain the Iranian/Aryan rule about them.

[norda]

Their leaders were black haired, tall, yellow/green/brown eyed people (...)Tall, highhead, has a hooked nose, black hairs.

I have read about this „Master Race” of Europe. You may be right. I will give you some rep.points. It could be really connected with presence of Hg 9 in Europe. http://www.dnaconsulting.ws/conversion.html

Thanks to Shapur the next important discovery was made. Old Slavic dynasties were “true Iranians” [Semitic?] but they were suffering from phenylketonuria just like some blue eyed N. Indians or Kurds