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Thread: Dig Reveals Human Skulls Mounted on Stakes - Sweden Pre-Indo-Aryan/-European Inhabitants

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    Dig Reveals Human Skulls Mounted on Stakes - Sweden Pre-Indo-Aryan/-European Inhabitants

    SOURCE --> THE LOCAL http://www.thelocal.se/36226/20110919/
    Dig reveals human skulls mounted on stakes

    Several human skulls found mounted on wooden stakes have been uncovered from a Stone Age lake bed in central Sweden in what is believed to be the first discovery of its kind anywhere in the world.

    “We found two skulls that still had wooden stakes sticking out of them through a whole at the base of the skull,” archeologist Fredrik Hallgren, head of excavation with the Stiftelsen Kulturmiljövård Mälardalen (‘Cultural Preservation Society of Mälardalen’) told The Local.

    The skulls and other artifacts, including bones of wild animals, were recovered at the Kanaljorden excavation site in the town of Motala in central Sweden.

    According to results from carbon-14 dating techniques, the skulls and other items are estimated to be about 8,000-years-old.

    “As far as we know, this discovery is unique in the world. Nothing has been found like this that is so old,” said Hallgren.

    The mounted skulls were found with the stakes inserted the full length from the base to the top of the skull.

    In another case a temporal bone of one individual identified as a female was found placed inside the skull of another woman.

    Altogether Hallgren and his colleagues have identified skulls or skull fragments from 11 individuals, including both men and women and ranging in age from infants to middle-age.

    The bones were found in what was a shallow lake during the early Stone Age which appears to have served as a ceremonial burial site.

    “Clearly this lake was some sort of holy place for the people who lived here at the time,” said Hallgren.

    Archaeologists are exploring two theories to explain why the human skulls were mounted on wooden stakes before being placed in the lake bed

    “One thought is that it was part of some sort of secondary burial ritual where the skulls were removed from dead bodies that had initially been placed elsewhere,” said Hallgren.

    “After the soft tissue had rotted away, the skulls were removed and placed on the stakes before being placed in the shallow lake.”

    Another theory is that the mounted skulls are trophies brought back from battles with other settlers in the area.

    “It may have been a way to prove one's success on the battlefield,” Hallgren explained.

    Further analysis is currently underway to determine if the bones are remains of locals or people with a distant geographic origin. Using DNA and other laboratory techniques, archaeologists will also try to find out if the remains found at the site belong to a single family group or persons unrelated to one another.

    Hallgren said that, as far as he knew, the discovery of human skulls mounted on stakes from this period of history was unprecedented.

    “There are other examples of human heads being mounted on stakes, but most of the finds are from the colonial period,” he said.

    The Kanaljorden settlement excavation site has been ongoing since 2009 and is located about 500 metres from Motala’s central train station. The site dates from a part of the Stone Age known as the Mesolithic period, at which time the area around Motala was deemed an almost perfect place to live.

    There was no agriculture in the area, however, with settlers instead surviving by fishing, hunting, and gathering.

    Another dig site nearby in Motala gained worldwide attention in 2010 when archaeologists uncovered what was believed to be a Stone Age dildo.

    The object, which measured 10-11 centimetres (4 inches) long and 2 centimetres in diameter, had been fashioned from a stag’s antler.

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    The pre-European Europeans, or Pre-Indo-Aryan inhabitants of Europe are of interest to me, in particular of course, the Pre-Germanics who are likely our most ancient ancestors, and progenitors of the unique shift in language & culture differentiating ancient Germanic from the other PIE languages:


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    That is just really cool. I think that is all I need to say right now. I love being an archaeology student.
    May my failures be my own, may my victories be for my folk

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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologists uncovered what was believed to be a [B
    Stone Age dildo[/B].
    The object, which measured 10-11 centimetres (4 inches) long and 2 centimetres in diameter, had been fashioned from a stag’s antler.
    Thanks.... I now have wine all over my monitor..... and my nose is burning....


    Do you know if they intend to do genetic testing on what people these may be? Germanic, or whatever type of people? It is interesting to be able to place certain groups of any people geographically in time.

    Cool post, thanks... other than spewing the wine through my nose anyway....

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    What if they're pre-Nordic people? What if they're closer to Finns or Sami?

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    These skulls probably came from Old Europeans, who lived in central Scandinavia at the time. They were a cro-magnoid racial type with swarthy features, also known as the "Tydal race" because of the area they were indigenous to. The Old Europeans didn't only live in the north; in fact, most of them were concentrated around the Mediterranean sea.

    The Indo-Europeans (or, to use the less PC term, the Aryans) enslaved these native people when they poured into Scandinavia. They became the first thralls, as I said in my thread about the Norse caste system. Most of the Old Europeans were either killed, or absorbed into the Indo-European population over time.

    (There's even a theory that the shared Indo-European mythology about goblins and cave-dwelling elves is actually based on the Old Europeans.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslaf View Post
    What if they're pre-Nordic people? What if they're closer to Finns or Sami?
    That's rather unlikely, since the Finns probably came from the east at a later point in the Iron Age. Their language is not European in origin.

    Quote Originally Posted by OutlawsnUnderdogs View Post
    Germanic, or whatever type of people?
    No, these skulls were not Germanic in any sense. This era was so far back in history, that's it almost ridiculous to even talk about "Germanics". At that point in time, the Indo-Europeans hadn't even split into different ethnic groups yet. It's a past almost unimaginably remote to us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odalman View Post
    (There's even a theory that the shared Indo-European mythology about goblins and cave-dwelling elves is actually based on the Old Europeans.)

    No, these skulls were not Germanic in any sense. This era was so far back in history, that's it almost ridiculous to even talk about "Germanics". At that point in time, the Indo-Europeans hadn't even split into different ethnic groups yet. It's a past almost unimaginably remote to us.
    Sounds more like late lingering neanderthals to me....then again the old europeans may have had higher percentages of neanderthal DNA. Dont know if Old European remains have been DNA tested for Neanderthal alleles?

    I was just reading somewhere about decapitated heads being plastered and often with shells inlaid into the eyes being found in villages in Anatolia - near the black sea...they would often be kept in the houses or temples, perhaps for ritual purposes. They would also put heads on poles and leave them for the vultures...its speculated that was part of an afterlife or transcendence type of ritual.

    I think you are right about Indo-europeans not being there 8000 years ago. I was under the impression they came from the east after the black sea flooded. That flood sent waves of migrants out of the area in all directions and before the flood would have been a major oasis for sustaining settlements and development of higher technological sophistication. The archeological record shows relatively primitive settlements rapidly replaced by much more advanced occupation supporting the black flood theory of dispersal. Some of the artifacts found were so sophisticated they were even originally mistaken as agean or hellenic in antiquity.

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    Curious as to what a "cro magnoid" is ?

    Cro magnon is basically what we are, they were identical to us as modern humans as far as what can be told from their skull structure, skeletal structure, mental capabilities, and dna, there average male hieght was even about what we are at just over 6feet.

    I tried looking up cro magnoid but I cannot find any reference to that anywhere.

    If these skulls have swarthy features, then they would almost certainly be Neanderthal, except that it is generally accepted that Neanderthal disappeared as a species 20,000 to 30,000 years ago.

    8,000 to 20,000 years ago is a rather blank period, so I find anything found within that range fascinating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odalman View Post


    That's rather unlikely, since the Finns probably came from the east at a later point in the Iron Age. Their language is not European in origin.

    Not to discount the tydals, but there are some theories or conjecture I've read that the ancestors of the Finns & their language might actually be the original pre-European people & language substratum of the north, which fused with the Indo-European/-Aryan newcomers to Europe in the north to form the Proto-Germanics.

    In essence this presupposes that the Proto-Finno-Ugrics, were like the Basques in the southwest of Europe, the indigenous population, and much wider spread to the west and south than present distribution or historical records would imply.

    These pre- or early-bronze-age Finnic people would have not been what a modern perspective might picture though, rather a purer nordic, nordish type strain - the notion being that the Finno-Ugrics moved eastward to the Urals, possibly under pressure from our ancestors, before recorded history mixing with foreign near-north-Asian racial elements & diverging further linguistically, and then subsequently these mixed strains 'back-washed' in a westward migration/re-immigration to intermingle with their purer cousins in what would become Finland, Estonia, and to a lesser extent the rest of northern Scandinavia.

    This subsequent mixed-population re-migration back to the west would be responsible then for giving the modern racial view of all Finno-Ugric people having a mixed eastern origin, occluding the original western origin of their ancestors in north Europe [as if mestizos immigrated en masse from Latin America to Spain, and nuclear war or some other cause purged all present & past knowledge, and racial perception of a remergent civilization a thousand years hence took the mixed Spanish surviving population as the original base], but offering a plausible explanation for the non-Indo-Aryan unique linguistic elements in Germanic & the presence of very Nordic elements within the Finns in particular which cannot simply be explained as entirely being Finnified Swedes.

    I'm unsure of this theory, but it was intriguing when others posted about it here and TNP back in the day, and I'm keeping an open mind about it.

    However the notion that a Finnic, or 'quasi-Finnic' people, rather than indigenous Europeans more closely related to the Basques & Iberian megalith builders, were the aboriginal British population prior to the Celts, responsible for the non-European traces in insular Celtic, particularly Old-Irish, that this pre-Indo-European Finnic substratum could have stretched that far west and south, I find more of a stretch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OutlawsnUnderdogs View Post
    If these skulls have swarthy features, then they would almost certainly be Neanderthal, except that it is generally accepted that Neanderthal disappeared as a species 20,000 to 30,000 years ago.

    8,000 to 20,000 years ago is a rather blank period, so I find anything found within that range fascinating.
    That period much of europe was covered in ice or was dry due to the ice age climate changes. After the ice age it was still very dry throughout much of europe. This is why the black sea was such an important oasis - being lower than the sea levels it was a more humid environment/micro climate and while other rivers dried up, the black sea was still recieving ice age melt-water. Additionally there was another mini ice age some 7000-8000 years ago. The ice ages weren't all just about cold and ice but also dryness. It was only about 8000 years ago I think when thick forests started returning to europe replacing the steppes.

    So while the main stream science community has drawn a line in the sand that Neanderthals 'dissapeared' 30,000 years ago based on pure archaic robust neanderthal fossil finds there is still a possibility remnant populations survived up until relatively recent times, especially in remote mountain areas or isolated pockets. If its true semitic people today have a higher percentage of neanderthal DNA (at least 10-20%) then it's within the realm of speculation to propose there may have been bands of neanderthal 'hybrids' that carried on through into historical story-telling such as old european goblin/troll myths or the biblical nephilim.

    Not many bones are found between 25-10,000 years ago because of the ice ages. Any bones found in the last 10,000 years that show marked neanderthal features are simply classified as modern human. There are people today with clear neanderthal features but only a DNA test will classify to what degree. But we have to remember that neanderthal robustness would be entirely different between a specimen from 50,000 years ago and 10,000 years ago to present if they lingered on in pure or hybrid form. Access to pottery, cro-mag technology and influence, improved or changing diet/climate etc is going to evolve neanderthal in exactly the same way it did cro magnon man. For example teeth sizes have become progressively smaller as eating utensils, food preparation and farming changed diets and bone/skull robustness changes from improved hunting technology and organisation, sexual selection, interbreeding, communal culture and improved long range weaponry.

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