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Thread: Fascism Is Not Conservatism

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinrich Harrer View Post
    And what is the nature of power?
    I don't know if this question can ever be definitively answered, because often the nature of power varies with those who wield it, but its essence is the capacity to convince or compel another to do one's own will.

    The monetary system is the easiest way to seize this capacity, as was realized by Mayer Amschel Rothschild in his famous quote:

    "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes its laws."

    This was a glaring reality in 2008, when the U.S. legislature was voting to bail out the banks with taxpayer dollars (actually, with dollars created from thin air by the Rothschild cartel - embodied by the Federal Reserve - and instantaneously becoming a public debt.) Not since the Versailles Treaty has a group of bureaucrats so offhandedly enslaved a whole nation for the benefit of its enemies. Indeed, in a way this was worse than Versailles in that its doing was an act of treason.

    Here's a glimpse into the nature of power as it is wielded today. You can even tell which legislative body has been bought and paid for by this man:

    Evelyn Rothschild 2008 Interview


    Indeed, the United States Senate arrogantly ignored the will of the people and passed the bailout by a vote of 75-25, a bill which they introduced themselves, since the House of Representatives rejected the measure there, amid panicked reports by media that some House members had received death threats and been threatened with martial law if they were to vote against the measure. A similarly panicked interviewer claimed earlier that year that there were rumors that an assassination was in the works for Ron Paul (the Fed's implacable enemy) if he won too many primaries and looked like a threat to win the Republican nomination.

    To those paying attention, in 2008 the mechanism of Rothschild power was becoming more and more obvious. To their credit, this mechanism has been awesome in its effectiveness over the past 200 years, but they have become too greedy and infused with a sense of hubris and entitlement to their position of Lords of the West. When you have become all-powerful, what else is left? They will eventually overplay their hand, because it is too much in their nature not to.
    [02-10, 17:07] Chlodovech: cats may have a reason for meowing too

    [02-10, 17:08] renownedwolf: same reason as the missus then.. give me stuff/affection..though she doesnt need me to let her out in the garden for a poo..

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    Only when the Conservative right takes a consistent stand against the left can this process be halted, as has been the case in the US where the right has actually managed to stave off the advances of left wing dogma on several issues, issues where the Conservative right in other parts of the world has caved.
    To be honest, I don't think the majority of those labeled "right" in the US are really right of the political spectrum. Look at Bush for instance. He was consistently labeled "right", but he ultimately cared more about maintaining a supply of cheap foreign labor from Mexico and fight proxy wars for Israel than he did about towing a fiscally conservative line.

    There can be no peace between tradition and progress and in order for tradition to stand a chance, it needs allies in high places. Once the parties, the media and other actors in the public sphere surrender to progress there are no longer any dissenting voices heard, and the public finds itself without representation. The substitutes that might emerge to represent the public on these issues can be of low quality and wont achieve, or restore the level of legitimacy and political clout that the former representatives, and in extention the positions themselves, once had.
    Why not? Progression doesn't naturally exclude Tradition. It could very well that a good, healthy society can have a strong cultural tradition and, at the same time, still be able to naturally progress. Japan and the US being prime examples.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schopenhauer View Post
    To be honest, I don't think the majority of those labeled "right" in the US are really right of the political spectrum. Look at Bush for instance. He was consistently labeled "right", but he ultimately cared more about maintaining a supply of cheap foreign labor from Mexico and fight proxy wars for Israel than he did about towing a fiscally conservative line.
    There have been set-backs in the US also, but they pale in comparison to those that have been incured in Europe and in western Europe in particular. My point is to show that resistance is the only medicine that works, and in those areas where the right has caved it suggests that their track record of resisting on that issue has been less than stellar. If you look at the approach or strategy that was used by the Republican party in the 1960s and onwards, by using so called wedge issues against the increasingly left-wing democrats, issues such as patriotism/militarism, race, family, morality, faith etc., you find that they were highly successful in defending a Conservative platform of principles and values in the public sphere. It wasn't flawless, it wasn't complete, it wasn't ideal, but it shows you what is possible when the right actually takes the fight against the left.

    My point is thus not that the republican party is the ideal incarnation and standardbearer of Conservatism, not that their leaders or members are perfect advocates of these values, nor that they have been 100% successful in defending conservative values and policy. My point is that they have made a deliberate effort that shows what can be accomplished if only the people's representatives do their job and represent the people. Their work, since the 1960s, despite many set-backs, has ensured that the US today is in much better shape than my own country Sweden is.

    Resistance works, and it works a whole lot better than indifference. That's my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schopenhauer View Post
    Why not? Progression doesn't naturally exclude Tradition. It could very well that a good, healthy society can have a strong cultural tradition and, at the same time, still be able to naturally progress. Japan and the US being prime examples.
    Progress in this sense is about more than mere economic development, it's a world view which condemns the past and worships the future and which is found among the ideologies on the left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    There have been set-backs in the US also, but they pale in comparison to those that have been incured in Europe and in western Europe in particular.
    Judging by what gets posted here, it would appear as though White Nationals are making better headway in Europa than they are here in the US.

    My point is to show that resistance is the only medicine that works, and in those areas where the right has caved it suggests that their track record of resisting on that issue has been less than stellar.
    Bullies are, by definition, cowards. Socialists, being nothing more than political bullies, can only be dealt with by force. So I certainly have no argument with you on that ground.

    If you look at the approach or strategy that was used by the Republican party in the 1960s and onwards, by using so called wedge issues against the increasingly left-wing democrats, issues such as patriotism/militarism, race, family, morality, faith etc., you find that they were highly successful in defending a Conservative platform of principles and values in the public sphere. It wasn't flawless, it wasn't complete, it wasn't ideal, but it shows you what is possible when the right actually takes the fight against the left.
    American politics are pretty simple. When the times are good, people generally vote Democrat. When there's a war on or when the country is in a recession, they vote Republican.

    The "wedge issues" which you enumerated aren't really traditional Conservative issues. They have more to do with the Neo-Con/Pro Israel types than they do with old school Republican fiscal conservatism.

    Again, it should be stressed that there really isn't a Left or Right in American politics anymore. Yes, politicians, while on the campaign trail, tend to use a lot of partisan rhetoric, but that is only to galvanize their bases. Once elected, they always govern from the center.

    My point is thus not that the republican party is the ideal incarnation and standardbearer of Conservatism, not that their leaders or members are perfect advocates of these values, nor that they have been 100% successful in defending conservative values and policy. My point is that they have made a deliberate effort that shows what can be accomplished if only the people's representatives do their job and represent the people. Their work, since the 1960s, despite many set-backs, has ensured that the US today is in much better shape than my own country Sweden is.
    Again, the Republican Party of today is not conservative in its worldview.

    The only party active in American politics that's actually espousing a fiscally conservative agenda are the Tea Party people.

    Well Bush Jr. was a "Republican" and he did more to destroy America's financial standing than any other president in recent memory.

    Resistance works, and it works a whole lot better than indifference. That's my point.
    Indifference is a sign that people are simply evolving beyond the Hobson's Choices forced upon them by this corrupt "two" party system. Right/Left are outmoded paradigms. The future will belong to the Third Positionists, not Trotskyites or Cheneyites.

    Progress in this sense is about more than mere economic development, it's a world view which condemns the past and worships the future and which is found among the ideologies on the left.
    Progress is an evolutionary, not partisan process. That people no longer die from Appendicitis is hardly a bad thing.
    Omnia risus et omnis pulvis et omnia nihil - HPL

    "Oh, you should never, never doubt what nobody is sure about." - Willy Wonka

    “niemand bleibt hier” - Maria Orsic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    So true. Leftist tactics are to attack their opponents and profit from their (human and civilized) tendency to assume good faith in their opponents and to compromise. But, instead of compromises bringing the two sides together they will only lead to the left increasing their demands and assuming an even more confrontational stance.

    You cannot compromise with a committed Communist, or any more modern derivation thereof. The only thing that works is attack and confrontation, because they will never compromise.
    Yes very true.

    The United States found that out in the post WW2, era cold war.

    As a Nation State the US, was never able to overcome the "Amerika" Cultural Marxism that arose in force after the 1960's.

    They used the open democratic system to overturn the US Republic and establish a "Democracy" which is not that much different from the USSR's version of socialism.

    IE this is why the majority of the traditional Germanic Americans hate the Democratic Party in the US.

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    This never made sense to me, as I knew that conservatism championed political and economic liberty and that communism and fascism were the direct antithesis of these.
    Already the writer makes a mistake by calling (classical) liberalism conservationism. No doubt this conservative also glorifies the French revolution for their promotion of political liberty.

    Both communism and Nazism are evil totalitarian systems characterized by enormous power in the central government.
    The word evil is a value judgment. And only says that from the value system the writer works from both systems are considered evil.

    Likewise, Nazism and fascism, by definition, are socialist systems, with the state owning or controlling the major means of industry and production.
    Their economics where more corporatist then socialist.

    Apart from being centralized political systems, Nazism and fascism were nationalistic, patriotic and militaristic.
    So conservatives are internationalist, unpatriotic and pacifist?

    Some have even said they were religious, but I see little authentic evidence of that.
    I would like to see what lack of evidence he is talking about. Because some fascist groups and parties where pretty religious. Either for supporting Catholicism or a form of (neo)Paganism.

    But there's a darker side to their thinking. The left's worst-kept secret is that many liberals believe -- or would at least like the electorate to believe -- that conservatives are racist. So there you have it. Conservatives are nationalistic, jingoistic and racist. Point, set, match. They're fascists.
    With other words Abraham Lincoln who wanted to ship all blacks back to Africa was a fascist and not conservative. The south is fascist, because of the among things the Jim Crow laws and laws against race mixing. Etc. Funny thing it actually shows who has more control over the political culture since the beliefs of the left about racism=evil is also being taken as correct by the writer.

    They are the opposite of racists, aspiring to colorblindness and equality of opportunity and rights for everyone.
    =Liberalism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schopenhauer View Post
    Judging by what gets posted here, it would appear as though White Nationals are making better headway in Europa than they are here in the US.



    Bullies are, by definition, cowards. Socialists, being nothing more than political bullies, can only be dealt with by force. So I certainly have no argument with you on that ground.



    American politics are pretty simple. When the times are good, people generally vote Democrat. When there's a war on or when the country is in a recession, they vote Republican.

    The "wedge issues" which you enumerated aren't really traditional Conservative issues. They have more to do with the Neo-Con/Pro Israel types than they do with old school Republican fiscal conservatism.

    Again, it should be stressed that there really isn't a Left or Right in American politics anymore. Yes, politicians, while on the campaign trail, tend to use a lot of partisan rhetoric, but that is only to galvanize their bases. Once elected, they always govern from the center.



    Again, the Republican Party of today is not conservative in its worldview.

    The only party active in American politics that's actually espousing a fiscally conservative agenda are the Tea Party people.

    Well Bush Jr. was a "Republican" and he did more to destroy America's financial standing than any other president in recent memory.



    Indifference is a sign that people are simply evolving beyond the Hobson's Choices forced upon them by this corrupt "two" party system. Right/Left are outmoded paradigms. The future will belong to the Third Positionists, not Trotskyites or Cheneyites.



    Progress is an evolutionary, not partisan process. That people no longer die from Appendicitis is hardly a bad thing.
    By qualifying Conservatism with the appendix "fiscal" whilst dismissing social issues as irrelevant you are making the case for classic liberalism, not Conservatism. We're thus discussing two completely different ideologies. The American constitution is a product of classic liberalism.

    For reference:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php...&postcount=371

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    By qualifying Conservatism with the appendix "fiscal" whilst dismissing social issues as irrelevant you are making the case for classic liberalism, not Conservatism. We're thus discussing two completely different ideologies. The American constitution is a product of classic liberalism.

    For reference:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php...&postcount=371
    The American Constitution is the product of Anglo-Saxon ideals of personal liberty.

    In America, Conservatism means fiscal responsibility, not an adherence to Xtian moral fundamentalism.
    Omnia risus et omnis pulvis et omnia nihil - HPL

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    GroenWolf wrote,
    I would like to see what lack of evidence he is talking about. Because some fascist groups and parties where pretty religious. Either for supporting Catholicism or a form of (neo)Paganism.
    What fascist groups were neo-pagans?
    Omnia risus et omnis pulvis et omnia nihil - HPL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    By qualifying Conservatism with the appendix "fiscal" whilst dismissing social issues as irrelevant you are making the case for classic liberalism, not Conservatism. We're thus discussing two completely different ideologies. The American constitution is a product of classic liberalism.

    For reference:
    http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php...&postcount=371
    Yes. I once listened to an American Conservative speaking about freedom and liberty and equality and thought to myself that Robespierre himself could hardly have said it better.

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