Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 42

Thread: "Sorcery and Religion in Ancient Scandinavia" by Varg Vikernes

  1. #11
    Eala Freia Fresena
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Ocko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last Online
    Monday, July 29th, 2019 @ 12:24 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Friese
    Ancestry
    Friesland
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Montana Montana
    Location
    Glacier park
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    selfemployed
    Politics
    rightwing
    Religion
    none/pagan
    Posts
    2,924
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    22
    Thanked in
    20 Posts

    Arrow

    sorcery is a tricky word.

    Generally one divides between shamans (the german word for it is Lachsner) and a sorcerer.

    The difference is not in the method because both use the same, the difference lies in the ethical use of the 'magic'.

    A sorcerer would use it for his own interest, a shaman would use it for the interest of a client and do it, when ethical.

    Ethical for an old german was not the 10 commandments of the bible but was a set of loyalties, what is good for the tribe is good , what is bad for the tribe is bad.

    Loyalties also may have belonged to one's God, to some natural spirits etc.

    So if you would kill an enemy of the tribe (let's say a king of an attacking group) through magic that would be considered as helpful. (though from a God's point of view it could be that the two kings have to fight and the one Odin chose would lose to become an einherjar).

    Nowadays in neoshamanism to kill somebody is unethical that would be preserved for a higher force. In general a shaman would try nowadays for a peaceful future.


    Sorcery can be divided into two groups: Earth-sorcery, more or less bring bad weather and destroy a harvest to punish or destroy someone. Many witches, who obviously knew how to manipulate wheather, have been accused of just that.

    war-sorcery to find out tactics, strategy, current position, make somebody blind, make somebodies weapons blunt etc.

    But in the second case I would not call it sorcery, it is basically warfare with different means. Kings were supposed to know those things as mentioned in the Eddas and employ it for the good of their people.

    A king who would bring hail to the people would be kept, one who didn't was considered out of line with the Gods and would be sacrificed.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

  2. #12
    Member Volkwin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Online
    Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 @ 11:37 AM
    Ethnicity
    Fälish
    Ancestry
    Frankish
    Gender
    Posts
    22
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    I read the book (well, actually read the first 50 pages and browsed through the rest) and am pretty much disappointed. Vikernes' own theories, which are the main foundation of this book, are pretty much way out there.

    The fact that he arrogantly states that we need to accept that everything we think we know about Germanic mythology is wrong and that he blatantly refuses give a real insight on where he got his theories or why they are supposed to be valid, doesn't help his cause one bit. He just goes on and on, changes details of myths as he goes along to "prove" his point. In the end, you're supposed to be convinced that Balðr is Bragi and Vali, Nanna is Iðunn, Höðr is Fenrir, Heimdall is both Hermoðr and the Ygdrassil itself, that every dominion of the gods is actually the name of a month and that virtually every myth and subsequent fairy tale describes a journey to the realm of the dead and back.

    I'm willing to be open-minded on a lot of things, but you can't expect people to be happy with throwing every Germanic myth on one big pile and stating that everything is basically one and the same thing.

    The whole book has a very cheap and flimsy feel to it. For instance, it doesn't have a literature list. Sure, Vikernes states that only two books were really of any help, but that's just not how you put together a decent and credible book. If you're an author and you come up with a whole set of new etymological reconstructions of divine names, you'd better be able to back them up one way or another.

    I liked his "Germansk mytologi og verdensanskuelse", even though that one had plenty of weirdness as well (the Sirius-stuff, the ariosophy/theosophy-hints), but this one is just too much. Sorry.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Olavssønn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Last Online
    Saturday, August 25th, 2012 @ 05:38 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Norwegian-Scandinavian
    Ancestry
    My known ancestry is Norwegian
    State
    Nordic Union Nordic Union
    Location
    Västra Värmland
    Gender
    Age
    26
    Politics
    Identitarian
    Religion
    Germanic & Indo-European Heathen
    Posts
    374
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Thanks for the review, Volkwin. I'm still waiting for my own copy, so I haven't had the chance to make my own opinion on it yet...

  4. #14
    Member Volkwin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Online
    Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 @ 11:37 AM
    Ethnicity
    Fälish
    Ancestry
    Frankish
    Gender
    Posts
    22
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    No problem, Olavsson. I'm curious to hear what other people have to say about it, though. In the meanwhile, I read the whole thing and my thoughts on the book haven't improved one bit.

    The new theories Vikernes came up with, are apparently lifted from the book "The Golden Bough" by James George Frazer, as Vikernes indeed states himself. The interesting thing is that those specific theories, such as the one of the year cycle, seem to have been discredited by scholars for a long time now.

    I wonder what's next? A new, weird book in about 5-10 years from now, with an all new theory on how Asgarðr in fact is Atlantis?

  5. #15
    Senior Member Kauz R. Waldher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Online
    Tuesday, April 17th, 2012 @ 10:43 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Subrace
    Don't know
    Country
    Vinland Vinland
    State
    Pennsylvania Pennsylvania
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Posts
    421
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Uhh, Stephen Flowers is every bit as "out there" as Varg Vikernes. And I love him for it. People are too "down to earth" these days. It's a spiritual disease methinks. Vikernes is highly intelligent. "Two bit"? That's kind of shitty to say. I like reading Varg's material. You know who else is "out there"? Julius Evola, Miguel Serrano and C.G. Jung ... and they're ALL pure geniuses. No one you can mention can out-think these men.

    If you bed to differ please read "Black Runa" and "Secret of the Gothick God of Darkness" by Flowers.
    "The mystery and secret of Wotan is not that "knowledge" of him is passed along through clandestine cults or even through the re-discovery of old books and texts--but rather that such knowledge is actually encoded in a mysterious way in the DNA, in the very genetic material, of those who are descended from him." - Secret of the Gothick God of Darkness

  6. #16
    Hundhedensk "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Hersir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Last Online
    @
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Håløyg
    Ancestry
    Norway
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Y-DNA
    I2b1
    mtDNA
    J2a1a1b
    Country
    Norway Norway
    State
    South Trondelag South Trondelag
    Location
    Norway
    Gender
    Age
    32
    Zodiac Sign
    Pisces
    Family
    Single adult
    Politics
    Nationalist
    Posts
    6,033
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    947
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    693
    Thanked in
    314 Posts
    You can't really compare Vikernes to Evola and Jung, they are giants among men.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Kauz R. Waldher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Online
    Tuesday, April 17th, 2012 @ 10:43 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Subrace
    Don't know
    Country
    Vinland Vinland
    State
    Pennsylvania Pennsylvania
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Posts
    421
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Hersir View Post
    You can't really compare Vikernes to Evola and Jung, they are giants among men.
    I didn't. I compared Varg to Flowers. In the way that he's a "far-out thinker". And Flowers' methods are unique and somewhat suggestive as well ... but I personally think that's the way you need to be when decoding Heathenism. As you know, we don't know very much at all. We must rely on some form of intuition and scholarship. The gods speak through certain men. Flowers was chosen.
    I must admit, Varg is kind of a "negative force" as a person. Not to discredit his intellect but he's kind of rude and seems to like being the bearer of bad news. But I still respect him as far as Heathenism is concerned. He has YEARS of research under his belt. Not to mention that "Valen" owns the "riff of the year" title IMO
    "The mystery and secret of Wotan is not that "knowledge" of him is passed along through clandestine cults or even through the re-discovery of old books and texts--but rather that such knowledge is actually encoded in a mysterious way in the DNA, in the very genetic material, of those who are descended from him." - Secret of the Gothick God of Darkness

  8. #18
    Senior Member Kauz R. Waldher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Online
    Tuesday, April 17th, 2012 @ 10:43 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Subrace
    Don't know
    Country
    Vinland Vinland
    State
    Pennsylvania Pennsylvania
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Posts
    421
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    "I wonder what's next? A new, weird book in about 5-10 years from now, with an all new theory on how Asgarðr in fact is Atlantis?"

    Maybe it was? Ha, ha
    "The mystery and secret of Wotan is not that "knowledge" of him is passed along through clandestine cults or even through the re-discovery of old books and texts--but rather that such knowledge is actually encoded in a mysterious way in the DNA, in the very genetic material, of those who are descended from him." - Secret of the Gothick God of Darkness

  9. #19
    Member Volkwin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Online
    Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 @ 11:37 AM
    Ethnicity
    Fälish
    Ancestry
    Frankish
    Gender
    Posts
    22
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Kauz R. Waldher View Post
    I didn't. I compared Varg to Flowers. In the way that he's a "far-out thinker". And Flowers' methods are unique and somewhat suggestive as well ... but I personally think that's the way you need to be when decoding Heathenism. As you know, we don't know very much at all. We must rely on some form of intuition and scholarship. The gods speak through certain men. Flowers was chosen.
    I must admit, Varg is kind of a "negative force" as a person. Not to discredit his intellect but he's kind of rude and seems to like being the bearer of bad news. But I still respect him as far as Heathenism is concerned. He has YEARS of research under his belt. Not to mention that "Valen" owns the "riff of the year" title IMO
    You can take Vikernes off your list of "persons through which the gods speak". His new book basically says that all religion, including the ancient European ones, are for idiots. Just like he dumped his satanist past, he now has dumped his pagan past.

    He indeed claims to have studied on the topic for years, but if this crappy book is the result of this "studies", I'd suggest him to stick to making black metal. While he basically admits in "Germansk mytologi og verdensanskuelse" that he copied the book "Nordisk Mythologi" by Petersen, he now largely copies "The Golden Bough". His own "genious" etymological reconstructions are flawed. Reducing every European myth to the basic plot of "getting the sun back", is stupid.

    The size of Vikernes' ego and mouth is far bigger than his IQ. He could have been a spearhead figure, and he probably was at one time a decade ago, but now he's a figure I'd avoid at all cost.

    My apologies if I come out extremely negative on this issue, but Germanic traditions and the work done by serious scholars is far too important to be destroyed by hacks.

  10. #20
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    renownedwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Last Online
    Tuesday, August 13th, 2019 @ 02:07 AM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Location
    Wales
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Religion
    Germanic Heathenry
    Posts
    814
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11
    Thanked in
    8 Posts
    I thought he was always heathen and never a satanist?

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. "Irminsûl" by Varg Vikernes
    By Hrafn in forum Germanic Heathenry
    Replies: 76
    Last Post: Saturday, July 9th, 2011, 01:17 AM
  2. Replies: 15
    Last Post: Saturday, October 17th, 2009, 09:40 AM
  3. "Lords Of Chaos" Movie on Varg Vikernes
    By Schlosser in forum Film, TV, & Performing Arts
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Saturday, October 17th, 2009, 09:28 AM
  4. Phenotype and Valhalla (split from "New Varg Vikernes Interview")
    By Vikingland in forum Germanic Heathenry
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: Thursday, May 31st, 2007, 11:48 PM
  5. Varg Vikernes: "Aryan tribes all have a common origin, Atlantis"
    By Hellstar in forum Anthropogeny & Ethnogenesis
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: Monday, October 21st, 2002, 02:10 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •