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Thread: We Are the Greatest Country on Earth, but Have Failed to Maintain Our Morality

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    We Are the Greatest Country on Earth, but Have Failed to Maintain Our Morality

    We are the greatest country on earth, because we are the ONLY country that has ever come close to pure freedom of the individual. Our progress is marked by the courageous men who advocated for the benevolent, voluntary exchange between free thinking men of Western civilization and stunted by their innocent mistakes. Our founding fathers recognized that man is an end in himself, but made the mistake of incorporating traditionalism, religion, and unobjective force into their philosophy because of the intellectual ignorance and mysticism of the times. Therefore, the constitution IS outdated in a sense, but it's basic moral principles aren't.

    The words "liberal" and "conservative" started out with very different meanings than they take on today. Liberals were the advocates of individual freedom, rationality, and Laissez Faire capitalism but because of intellectual mistakes (intellectuals in the past assumed that the way to acquire wealth is by force), they have become just a different kind of approach to collectivism as with the conservatives.

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    If, when you are discussing morality, you are referring to anything tainted by Judeo-Xtian degeneracy, then I can say, without reservation, that I'm glad "we" lost it.
    Omnia risus et omnis pulvis et omnia nihil - HPL

    "Oh, you should never, never doubt what nobody is sure about." - Willy Wonka

    “niemand bleibt hier” - Maria Orsic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schopenhauer View Post
    If, when you are discussing morality, you are referring to anything tainted by Judeo-Xtian degeneracy, then I can say, without reservation, that I'm glad "we" lost it.
    We have not lost religious mysticism unfortunately, and we are living by rules tainted by it at the very core. My definition of morality is acting on your own rational self interest in a benevolent way. I don't see how you could fully understand what I wrote and draw such a conclusion.

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    Feisty, I note with interest that your profile has now changed from something like 'there has to be a creator' to 'Agnostic'

    Has there been an event to trigger this, or is it just the result of some recent soul-searching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by feisty goddess View Post
    We have not lost religious mysticism unfortunately, and we are living by rules tainted by it at the very core. My definition of morality is acting on your own rational self interest in a benevolent way. I don't see how you could fully understand what I wrote and draw such a conclusion.
    There is nothing wrong with religious mysticism just because its religious does not mean it has to be Christian. Not all the values of Christianity are tainted actually Christianity was responsible for a lot of good during the Medieval and Renaissance age. Its only became tainted after the Reformation and during the Enlightenment period. I think that the idea of freedom as advocated by the Original framework of the American constitution was tainted by too much French sensibility. If you want to develop a truly free system there will have to be some sense of cooperation between the citizens and their government because both are necessary in order for a society to function properly.



    Morality is also not strictly individualistic some of it does have to do with shared values and cultural expressions, behaviors, and mannerisms between cultures or in a culture. Also there is no such thing such thing as acting on your own rational self interest in a benevolent way strictly speaking. Now a person's rational self interest is good and he should be allowed to freely and independently express it. But sometimes an individual gets carried away with their own self interests as most people do. This leads to social anarchy more than anything which is not only socially inviable but which will lead to the demolishment of the core values shared by a culture. Now if those core values(America for example) are corrupt and demented there is no reason not to revolt against them but trying to get rid of social standards and norms is nealy impossible in any civilized society.




    A Utopian society is not a reality either in the end there is no such thing as a perfect system there are just mimics of a perfect system to some degree or the other. Hobbes was right that self interest will lead to competition and if the government does not step in place regulations and rules on how the game is played ultimately we will see people eventually desiring to have their self interest overcome other people's. I think a sport's game is quite similar to how a good society should be run if the football players were allowed to play without rules and regulations than eventually the purpose of the game could be one-sided but if the Elites in the NFL and regulated and imposed rules on the confine to take away the competitive nature of the game that would be wrong as well.


    P.S. Religious Mysticism is not bad it just depends on the creed and how it is being presented to people most of the time religious is just a means for people to manipulate other people spiritually and to set double standards that give them advantages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by feisty goddess View Post
    We have not lost religious mysticism unfortunately, and we are living by rules tainted by it at the very core. My definition of morality is acting on your own rational self interest in a benevolent way. I don't see how you could fully understand what I wrote and draw such a conclusion.
    Hence the use of the word "if."
    Omnia risus et omnis pulvis et omnia nihil - HPL

    "Oh, you should never, never doubt what nobody is sure about." - Willy Wonka

    “niemand bleibt hier” - Maria Orsic

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    Quote Originally Posted by feisty goddess View Post
    We are the greatest country on earth, because we are the ONLY country that has ever come close to pure freedom of the individual. Our progress is marked by the courageous men who advocated for the benevolent, voluntary exchange between free thinking men of Western civilization and stunted by their innocent mistakes. Our founding fathers recognized that man is an end in himself, but made the mistake of incorporating traditionalism, religion, and unobjective force into their philosophy because of the intellectual ignorance and mysticism of the times. Therefore, the constitution IS outdated in a sense, but it's basic moral principles aren't.
    The idea that "man is the measure of all things" is a decidedly non-Christian idea. Believing that you're the suffering, sinful servant of a distant God is contrary to, say, the heroic attitude of the pre-Christian Germanics or stoic patriotism of the Romans.

    One of the finest comments that I've discovered about man's proper relationship to the divine comes from Epictetus the Stoic. In a lecture titled What should we conclude from the principle that Zeus is the father of mankind? the philosopher opens his lecture with this statement:

    If a person could be persuaded of this principle as he ought, that we are first of all children of Zeus, and that Zeus is the father of gods and men, I think that he would never conceive a single abject or ignoble thought about himself. Now if the Emperor [of Rome] were to adopt you, there would be no bearing your haughty looks: so will you not be elated on knowing yourself to be the son of Zeus?

    The Stoics postulated that God's portion, the God within that they often mentioned, was reason and rationality. The Deists held a similar belief: God's greatest gift, the thing that makes humans divine, is reason.

    The Christians teach and believe in the opposite- that reason and rationality are worth less than faith and that mankind is to approach God by begging, creeping, and wretched self-abasement.
    'Militia est vita hominis super terram [The life of man upon earth is a warfare] (Job 7:1).'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Godwinson View Post
    Feisty, I note with interest that your profile has now changed from something like 'there has to be a creator' to 'Agnostic'

    Has there been an event to trigger this, or is it just the result of some recent soul-searching?
    I've been leaning towards this for a long time, but I never had a means to justify it since I had been influenced by my parents nonsense until I started reading adult stuff and becoming more educated. Deism is not that different from agnosticism (is that a word? ) anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by feisty goddess View Post
    I've been leaning towards this for a long time, but I never had a means to justify it since I had been influenced by my parents nonsense until I started reading adult stuff and becoming more educated. Deism is not that different from agnosticism (is that a word? ) anyway.
    A Deist will admit that God exists but will not elaborate since specualtion about the true nature and character of the Deity is pointless rumination.
    'Militia est vita hominis super terram [The life of man upon earth is a warfare] (Job 7:1).'

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeistFaust View Post
    There is nothing wrong with religious mysticism just because its religious does not mean it has to be Christian.
    Excellent point. What is often termed "religious" are the feelings of awe and wonder many of us experience when experiencing something particularly profound. The Runes for instance.

    Not all the values of Christianity are tainted actually Christianity was responsible for a lot of good during the Medieval and Renaissance age.
    Like what, the Crusades and the various Inquisitions? Lets not forget the homicidal suppression of scientific thought either.

    Its only became tainted after the Reformation and during the Enlightenment period.
    Xtianity was rotten from the start. Possibly the most virulently anti-life ideology ever conceived, except maybe for Marxism.

    I think that the idea of freedom as advocated by the Original framework of the American constitution was tainted by too much French sensibility.
    The US Constitution was influenced more by Anglo-Saxon concepts of law and personal liberty than anything else.

    If you want to develop a truly free system there will have to be some sense of cooperation between the citizens and their government because both are necessary in order for a society to function properly
    Our Germanic ancestors had this, but we, living in the modern age, have lost it. Sadly, that kind of cooperative government only woks in small, tribal settings anyways.

    Morality is also not strictly individualistic some of it does have to do with shared values and cultural expressions, behaviors, and mannerisms between cultures or in a culture.
    What you are really talking about here are ethics and social mores.

    Also there is no such thing such thing as acting on your own rational self interest in a benevolent way strictly speaking.
    Of course there is. Here's an example, I like cats, now because I find them aesthetically pleasing, I go down to the local animal shelter and take a few home, where I will feed them, keep them warm and dry, and provide them with plenty attention and love for the rest of their lives.

    In this instance I have acted out of rational self-interest and have also acted benevolently.

    Now a person's rational self interest is good and he should be allowed to freely and independently express it. But sometimes an individual gets carried away with their own self interests as most people do.
    If they are being carried away by their passions, then they are, by definition, no longer acting rationally.

    This leads to social anarchy more than anything which is not only socially inviable but which will lead to the demolishment of the core values shared by a culture. Now if those core values(America for example) are corrupt and demented there is no reason not to revolt against them but trying to get rid of social standards and norms is nealy impossible in any civilized society.
    The problem is that there no longer exists a homogeneous American Culture to speak of. Yes, the Anglo-Saxon tradition still exists, but now it has to vie against Third, Fourth, and Fifth Worlders for control.

    Now the reason that Anglo-Saxon Culture is having to vie with these inferior mongrels is because of Judeo-Xtian poisoning. Remember, the only reason Xtianity came into existence in the first place was to destroy superior Aryan culture/philosophy. This is why Xtianity was peddled to slaves and other social rejects.

    A Utopian society is not a reality either in the end there is no such thing as a perfect system there are just mimics of a perfect system to some degree or the other.
    Occidental society is still, for the most part, patterned after the ancient Aryan model. That of Kings>Warriors/Priests>Tradesmen.

    Hobbes was right that self interest will lead to competition and if the government does not step in place regulations and rules on how the game is played ultimately we will see people eventually desiring to have their self interest overcome other people's.
    Yes, this sort of thing worked great in Soviet Russia....


    I think a sport's game is quite similar to how a good society should be run if the football players were allowed to play without rules and regulations than eventually the purpose of the game could be one-sided but if the Elites in the NFL and regulated and imposed rules on the confine to take away the competitive nature of the game that would be wrong as well.
    Humans come hardwired with a will to create social structures. This is the reason we are at the top of the food chain now.

    As for free market capitalism, it's self regulating. If something is too expensive, then it doesn't sell and will go extinct. If, on the other hand, something is affordable, it will sell. The only reason governments regulate the free market is because they can't stand competition.


    P.S. Religious Mysticism is not bad it just depends on the creed and how it is being presented to people most of the time religious is just a means for people to manipulate other people spiritually and to set double standards that give them advantages.
    Mysticism exists to obscure the facts and why we end up with religions in the first place. Only a small percentage of the population is intellectually and emotionally capable of handling certain types of knowledge. Those that are are the keepers of "mystery." This mystery is the knowledge of secret sciences enshrouded in myth in order from keeping the intellectually and emotionally ill-equipped from misusing these secrets.
    Omnia risus et omnis pulvis et omnia nihil - HPL

    "Oh, you should never, never doubt what nobody is sure about." - Willy Wonka

    “niemand bleibt hier” - Maria Orsic

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