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Thread: Half of Europeans Share Tutankhamun's DNA

  1. #11
    Senior Member Olavssønn's Avatar
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    From the opening post:

    The results showed that King Tut belonged to a genetic profile group, known as haplogroup R1b1a2, to which more than 50 percent of all men in Western Europe belong, indicating that they share a common ancestor.
    Don't they mean R1b1b2, which is the form of R1b that has the highest distribution among European men.

    That's the Y-DNA haplogroup I belong to, by the way.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Gall Óglach's Avatar
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    I was never a believer in the notion that white people designed the pyramids.

    I really need to brush up on my ancient history, what were the Greeks doing at that time, and what is the possibility that it was the Greeks that ran Eygpt back then like they did under the Ptolemaic dynasty.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Todesritter's Avatar
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    Among the most logical conclusions excluding this genetic data being in error are either that this DNA had come from our homelands in to the north-west of ancient Egypt, or that this DNA actually had come from the near-east to ancient western Europe .... or perhaps that North/West Europe & the upper castes at least we're parallel inheritors of an even more ancient source as yet unknown to science or history.

    North Africans, Near Easterners, Romans, Greeks, Persians, Ancient Turks, etc. were 'whiter' as an aggregate in ancient times from the preponderance of evidence

    We often end up with with these bits of data from ancient times which do not well match our modern picture of the current population, but that is because mixing over generations has changed things - don't make the assumption that the ancients in these regions are an exact biological match for the Muslim on the street you see there on television now; if you keep adding coffee to a pitcher of cream you irrevocably change the nature of your pitcher of cream....


    The sources of the day in ancient times, such as Scylax indicate that there were red-haired, fair-haired, and even blonde strains in North Africa dating from times ancient already to them:

    http://www.archive.org/stream/cu3192...14370_djvu.txt

  4. #14
    Senior Member Alfadur's Avatar
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    Yes, it's beyond doubt that the ancient Egyptians were a Caucasian people. They were neither negroes nor Semites, that's been well established. It's interesting to speculate how Europid they were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gall Óglach View Post
    I was never a believer in the notion that white people designed the pyramids.
    Well, all we know is that they were Caucasians and tanned by the sun, so it's very unclear how "white" they were by today's standards. Their own wall paintings show them with a dun-brown skin tone. But then, the statue of Nefertiti seems to indicate that at least the Egyptian royalty had pale skin. Artworks aren't reliable ways to classify race, although they do offer hints.

    There is a theory that the Pharaohs belonged to an Europid population around the Mediterranean that was related to the Old Europeans such as Minoans. (Their hieroglyphs have absolutely no relation to any script of Indo-Europeans, so they're unrelated to those.) Given that the Spaniards, who have lots of Old European blood, have such a high percentage of Tutankhamun's ganes, I personally think this one is the most likely theory.

    I really need to brush up on my ancient history, what were the Greeks doing at that time, and what is the possibility that it was the Greeks that ran Eygpt back then like they did under the Ptolemaic dynasty.
    The Egyptians were a much older culture, they built their pyramids and studied the stars at least 4000 years ago. Their cities were already old when Indo-European newcomers like the Greeks appeared. Egypt's history stretches into a past almost unimaginably remote for us.
    But the Egyptians ceased to exist as a race, mainly because of wars against the Nubians. Lots of slaves were taken in the war, and their negroid genes absorbed into Egypt. They enslaved people on a massive scale. The last actual Pharaoh, Taharka, was of mixed race (that's clear from his sculptures). It's from the downfall of Taharka that most historians date the end of Ancient Egypt, although the last pure Egyptians had disappeared a long time before that.

    The Greeks conquered and colonized Egypt in a much later era. It was already a mixed-race country at this point, and the Egyptian peasants weren't the same people as their ancestors. The Greeks basically ran Egypt the same way the British ruled over mixed-race India.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    And here we must also mention the Arabs; at first a conquering people, but then, as they cast the nets for their harems further and further away, they too abated and stopped being a problem. And from genetic studies we know that the modern Arabs have relatively high degrees of Negro admixture.
    Indeed, the Arabs are very negrified. Although it depends on which Arab populations you're talking about: the Lebanese are very much Levantine, while the North Africans have much more negroid blood, and the Gulf Arabs are largely mulattoes. (The Yemenis are the blackest, I think).

    As you said yourself, this is a result of enslaving African negroes and absorbing them into their population. The Islamic harem system and polygamy resulted in extreme rates of miscegenation. The Arabian peninsula, being in closest proximity to East Africa, was the worst affected.

    I would like to see a before-and-after genetic study for the Turks as well since I suspect that their harem recruiters went a little too far out in the field too.
    The Turks, when they first appeared, were an Asiatic steppe people who came out of Turkestan. They were of the same mongoloid race as the Tatars and other Central Asian tribes. But they had the practice of enslaving the local women wherever they went, like all Muslim peoples do, and so they gradually "shed" their traits as they picked up a lot of genes from other races they conquered along the way.

    The Turks are basically a mixed-race people today. Although they got negrified to a certain degree, they also "whitened" their gene pool after their total conquests of Greece and the Balkans. In western Turkey, the locals absorbed lots of blood from Southeastern Europe. The elite Janissary troops were taken from the Balkans, and this is where the blond Kemal Ataturk had his ancestry.
    Yes, the Muslim Asiatic invaders were finally turned into a modern state under the leadership of a white man.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Sigyn's Avatar
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    I suppose this revelation will shut up the "Egyptians were black" crowd, although I'm not counting on it. I once saw an African at my former college who had an Egypt-themed wrist tattoo.

    So we know the ancient Egyptians weren't black or Arab. I don't think the modern Coptic Christians are direct descendants of the Egyptians, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfadur
    As you said yourself, this is a result of enslaving African negroes and absorbing them into their population. The Islamic harem system and polygamy resulted in extreme rates of miscegenation. The Arabian peninsula, being in closest proximity to East Africa, was the worst affected.
    Polygamy usually results in race-mixing, I noticed that as well. It's probably because the richest few men get all the native women, so all the leftover men have to get foreign women instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigyn View Post
    I suppose this revelation will shut up the "Egyptians were black" crowd, although I'm not counting on it. I once saw an African at my former college who had an Egypt-themed wrist tattoo.
    That is unlikely. Because most of it are based on pseudo-science at best.

    Polygamy usually results in race-mixing, I noticed that as well. It's probably because the richest few men get all the native women, so all the leftover men have to get foreign women instead.
    Not that much, since most foreign women enter such countries as slaves which those poorer people could hardly afford. It was more those with the harems that had foreign women. Even more so for the Pharaohs, since exchanging daughters is part of the diplomatic process in cultures that practice polygyny.
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