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Thread: Permaculture (Food Forests), a Beginners Guide

  1. #21
    Senior Member BigNoise's Avatar
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    Everyone's version of "permaculture" is different, but I think that in general, it's the right idea. Monoculture, chemicals, intensive tilling, etc. are not healthy or sustainable for man, beast, or earth.

    Sepp Holzer's farm is absolutely brilliant...a huge inspiration for sure.

    I think the ideal would be small scale permaculture, on a family to neighborhood level. Combine that with grass fed livestock on rotationally grazed pastures, mimicking the natural cycles of large herbivores in nature.

    Joel Salatin is probably the biggest voice for this method of raising animals. Google or YouTube him...an incredibly knowledgeable, passionate, inspirational man.

  2. #22
    Aka kentynet Northumbria's Avatar
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    Spearbrave, I'm with you on this one. Indvidual subsistence farming cannot produce the quantity of food necessary to feed the World's seven billion and growing population. As for Permaculture, it's an interesting model for individual or communal subsistence farming designed to fit into various ecological niches with a minimum of disruption to the ecological systems themselves either in the the short term or long term. For it to work, the world would have to reverse the trend of population movement from the agraian rural environments to the industrialized urban environments as has taken place over the millenia. This would be a radical shift which I don't think is likely to occur... Modern Ag.? It's all about hybrid seeds, fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides and water. The ingredients necessary to maximize crop yields and feed an exploding population.
    Yeah, this is what I think.

    I personally prefer high farming / rotational farming. If done well it doesn't need fertilisers and such farms were actually very good for wildlife. The trick to making it work is to include grazing animals.

    There are a couple of permaculture farms close to me ( at least two that I have been to ) They both grow less food on 10 acres than I do with my personal garden which is about a acre +. I don't use any commercial fertilizers or pesticides or herbicides.
    I think permaculture is wishful thinking, people with not much experience of farming discussing how it should be.
    It's a nice theory, but I don't think it can work as well as rotational farming.

    If anyone has read Seymour's book "self sufficiency" (I have a link to the file version) then that explains in brief a few things about conserving the soil and rotating crops and livestock.

    Thanks for posting this I found this documentary to be very interesting.
    I wonder if Germanic countries could be totally self sufficient.
    In some important things yes, mainly staple crops - most cereals, certain vegetables and fruit and livestock and dairy.

    For example England is self-sufficient in cereals (wheat, rye, oats, the rest...), dairy products, beef, lamb and pork (but strangely not bacon because it is a very popular cut - much imported from Denmark).
    But it's not self-sufficient in vegetables apart from potatoes and maize (used as fodder here).

    In the 1970s and 80s self sufficiency was very high but it has gone down due to less intensive farming (thanks to the EU) and more things being imported from warm countries which we don't produce - coffee, tea, chocolate, tropical fruits.

    If you take out warm-climate produce which is imported then you'd find that self-sufficiency is actually rather high. Another point is that so much food is wasted - thrown away by supermarkets and consumers.
    Also a lot of grain is fed to livestock which isn't good for self-sufficiency neither.

    Many vegetarians say that if we all became veggie there'd be enough land to feed the world, but there'd be much less protein and a lot of wasted land.
    Around 40% of England is suitable for Arable, the rest is split between grazing land, urban areas and unworked land. Around 15% of this grazing land could be used to grow hardier crops such as oats, leeks or turnips but most is only good for grazing and would be wasted without animals.


    Most Germanic countries are self sufficient in a few things, but not in others. If combined together they'd likely be self-sufficient in most cool-climate produce if not all.

    America and Canada import mainly grain to feed livestock but there's not much chance they'll will starve any time soon.

    There is no doubt that Germanic countries can become totally self sufficient when it comes to food production, especially if you include the U.S., Canada, New Zealand, and Australia. It just depends on which farming methods will work best to utilize the land available in a preserving manner. Not only do we have to preserve our race and culture, but we must also preserve our land.
    Yes, I get annoyed when I see bare fields in autumn. Most farmers sow grass and clover to put fertility back in and stop erosion but a few don't.
    I also hate seeing the same crops in the same place year after year, it is not good for the fertility of the land at all.

    Either 1 or 2 year rotation, for example maize one year, grass, clover and cattle the next.

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    Aka kentynet Northumbria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocko View Post
    For 7 billion people you need then 700 million acre.

    In 2007 we had 922 million acre farmland in the US. It would mean the US alone could feed the rest of the world with that method. (numbers from USDA I know you cannot simply calculate like that but it seems to be feasible.


    So I don't know what the worry is about.
    Yes, but there needs to be 700 million acres of arable.

  4. #24
    Hundhedensk "Friend of Germanics"
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    Another interesting video, featuring the Holzers:


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