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Thread: Lower Races and Religion

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    Post Lower Races and Religion

    Revilo Oliver observes that the lower races had nothing that could truly be called religion. It's because they are incapable of ever imagining anything resembling a god, other than some living being. They are also unable to tell the difference between something animate (alive) and something inanimate!

    They also have little or no comprehension of cause and effect. For example:

    "The creatures live in a world of perpetual mystery, incapable of perceiving a relation between cause and effect. Scrupulous observation has shown that the Arunta and other tribes of Australoids, admittedly the lowest species that is classified as human, propagated themselves for at least fifty thousand years without even guessing that there might be some causal relationship between sexual intercourse and pregnancy. For aught we know to the contrary, baboons may have more native intelligence. Obviously, where nothing is either natural or supernatural, there can be no concept that could be called religious."

    Here is the link to this book:
    http://www.revilo-oliver.com/rpo/RPO...rist/chap1.htm

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Is Pagansm Lower?

    This is a very off-beam interpretation of Oliver's position.
    I have read quite a bit of Oliver's work, and he strikes me as being a thoroughly Skeptical Atheist [see his 'Is There Intelligent Life on Earth'].

    He regards organised religion as being organised superstition, and while savages have nothing like the organised Semitic religions, they certainly have lots of superstitious beliefs which regulate the life of their tribes.
    Their beliefs are animist and pantheist, and could be called 'religion'.

    However it seems Oliver is saying in the quote that religion must be separated from the State [as it only is in the West] in order to be called religion. In most other cultures there is no separation, and religion is therefore life itself, and cannot be called something separate [i.e., a 'religion'], but rather 'a way of life' [e.g., as in Islam].

    The charge that the 'lower races' cannot tell the difference between animate and inanimate things betrays an ignorance of European paganism, where inanimate objects were definitely thought to be living things. Indeed, pagan magic is based on the belief that life can be breathed into dead objects: are pagan Europeans therefore a 'lower race'?

    As for cause and effect, this is not so much a religious, as a scientific conception; so the 'lower races' ignorance of cause and effect has little to do with religion. Also, the Western mechanistic view of cause and effect has been somewhat dissolved by Quantum Physics.

    To Oliver, a revival of European paganism would be a revival of mumbo-jumbo ; and how many here agree with him?
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, March 10th, 2003 at 04:52 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Ederico's Avatar
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    I tend to believe that Atheism is a form of arrogance with a great magnitude and I also view this Lower Races argument as coming from some sort of Atheistic and Materialistic perspective subdued by arrogance. Religions are an expression of the state of its Creators and thus a view on our spirituality and soul.

    Categorising Religions as Lower or Higher certainly might indicate the state of the creators' in the Human Hierarchy. As we probably all agree upon, Egalitarianistic positions for everyone are inexistant and anti-natural, thus we believe in the Aristocratic and Elitist form of our Human and Racial Nature, as such Higher and Lower Races exist and in their Religions we might see parellels to these levels of Hierarchy.

    It is my opinion, that we might need to recreate a newer Aryanised spiritual conception of reality and the religious dispension of the truth through this. Answering with Atheism is answering with Arrogance in the Spiritual realm, and to me it smells of Nihilism.

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    << They are also unable to tell the difference between something animate (alive) and something inanimate! >>

    This is a flawed interpretation of that mindset. A better way to put it would be:
    "They view the entire natural world - plants, animals, rocks, ponds, breezes, etc - as being alive". It's really not that silly at all, actually. Like Moody said, European pagans did the same thing.

    "Ranking" religions into a hierarchy of some kind is stupid. Most of the so-called "primitive" people are more advanced spiritually than we in the West are. These people who look down on such "religions" are blinded by ignorance and bias, and have a serious lack of spiritual insight.

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    Originally posted by Nazzjonalist
    I tend to believe that Atheism is a form of arrogance with a great magnitude and I also view this Lower Races argument as coming from some sort of Atheistic and Materialistic perspective subdued by arrogance. Religions are an expression of the state of its Creators and thus a view on our spirituality and soul.
    I see what you mean about atheism as a form of arrogance, but I do not think that is always the case with everyone who is an atheist. Do you have to believe in some form of God, or Gods, to be spiritual? Maybe there are other ways than the conventional and common idea of "religion" and worship. People have come a long way from all forms of religion. There are so many different ways to examine the human soul, to live your life by, etc...we are so complex, yet we associate spirituality and our soul only with what has been done in the past; belief systems. What about modern psychology, how we explore ourselves through our personalities? Can that not be a form of spirituality, through self-discovery? We express ourselves through many ways, the arts, even science, whatever we can think of. Our religions, for the most part, no longer really express us.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Faith in Race

    I tend to go along with the opposing view; that the more 'advanced' technology becomes, then by an inverse ratio, the more does man return to the Primeval.

    I view fascism/national socialism/racialism/tribalism (from the perspective of traditions and lores) as an example of this return to the mysterious roots of our cultures.
    Indeed, the use of the term 'Aryan' suggests this in itself.

    I agree that skepticism and doubt is a useful tool [look at historical revisionism], but we should not mistake a tool for a workshop, or the sculptor's chisel for the block of stone to be worked upon.
    You cannot build on skepticism or atheism because by their very nature they lack foundation.

    This is why the study of the foundational ancient myths and symbols of our esteemed ancestors is so important to the movement.
    Last edited by Moody; Tuesday, March 11th, 2003 at 04:56 PM.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Senior Member Ederico's Avatar
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    @Vanessa

    Our spirituality does not necessitate any God or Gods. Revisiting our ancestral Pagan Deities might be a form of cultural and racial re-discovery of our Racial being and thus something positive. To be Spiritual we do not necessarily require a belief in Divinity. Spiritualism is a non-materialistic world-view we erect for ourselves that might make us symbiotic with our surroundings. More people need to discover Spiritualism, myself included, I know nothing about it.

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    I agree with Vanessa. I think that the higher the race, the less superstitious it is. It was Western thinking that did away with superfluous ideas. Occam's Razor says that the simplest explanation is usually the corrext one, and much of middle-eastern-turned-Western religion has been debunked by scientific discoveries. Likewise, almost all pre-scientific (i.e., prior to the stage of rigorous intellectual inquiry into Nature) belief systems are erroneous, including indiginous European ones.

    Yes, I am still "spiritual." To me, spirituality involves discovereing the world that is really out there, not the one that our ancestors incorrectly (though understandably) perceived, nor the one that the parasites shoved down the throats of our more recent ancestors. You want spiritual? Read about cutting-edge discoveries in cosmology, genetics, paleontology, etc.; discover your place in the universe.

    The flip side of the coin is what our active role should be, given what we know about our place in the universe. Dr. Pierce and his Cosmotheism emphasized the critical role that we play as the most evolved sub-group of the most evolved species on this planet (go to www.natall.com, then go to the archived ADV broadcasts, and see "Our Cause" from 1976). If you look at natural history, you will see ever-increasing complexity in small pockets (from the Big Bang until the arrival of white man on the scene), and if we survive, our complexity will spread to the stars! If we go extinct, it is possible that the only intelligent life in the universe would have been sunffed out of existence. This puts a new and very spiritual twist on the urgency of our cause!

    In a way, I think I am capturing the essence of my ancestors' paganism, albeit in a way that is up-to-date.
    Last edited by Von Braun; Tuesday, March 25th, 2003 at 10:19 AM.

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    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Technophiliac Bewilderment?

    I know Pierce's Cosmotheists speech, 'Our Cause', very well.

    In that he speaks continually of "The Creator", and "The Creator's Purpose".
    And while it is an admirable exposition, it sounds rather dry - it lacks spiritual 'juice' despite using spiritual language.

    It seems slightly sanitised when compared with say, 'Thus Spake Zarathustra', by Nietzsche, or 'Might Is Right', by Redbeard.

    While I respect those who claim to get a 'spirituality' from Cosmotheism [after all, that is the intention], I wonder if it is the real thing.
    Similarly those who claim to find spiritual nourishment from the discoveries of science; I suspect that they may be using the word 'spiritual' to mean something else.
    Just as 'shock and awe' is not so much spiritual wonderment as technophiliac bewilderment.

    Your definition of 'spiritual' as "discovering the world that is out-there" is a poor one; it pertains rather to scientism. Nothing wrong with that, but let's call a spade a spade.
    A reductionist, scientific outlook is not tantamount to a mystical, spiritual, outlook.

    Many famous scientists believed in those so-called pre-scientific belief systems; it's known that Newton wrote more on Biblical prophecy and astrology than he did on science, for example.
    Also, the Jew Einstein was a firm Jehovah believer [indeed, how do you account for the pre-eminence of Jews in science - are they a higher race?]

    There is also the problem that the early Aryans and early Nordics were far more 'superstitious' BEFORE the Jews entered their societies [see the Protocol's designs on religion] than now.
    Those early Aryans are also considered to be Racially PURER than those of today. How is is that a purer Aryan Race was an undeniably more superstitious race?
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    @ Moody

    Is there any nobility in embellishing the world with things that do not exist?

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