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Thread: Germanic Scottish Clans

  1. #11
    Senior Member Thorolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingvaeonic View Post
    MacNeill is one clan from the Outer Hebrides that I can recall.
    Yes Macneill/ Mcneil and its other many spellings are a clan from the Outer Hebrides. Though there is another clan with the same name, mine is from the Outer Hebrides. I know the Macleods and a few others are up there too. I don't know many other clans names up there though. There was a Macleod in the family tree also but I don't know much about her just where she was from. The Macneil I know more about and he seems to be more important to the family tree.

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    Two of my clans:

    Hamilton - The family is descended from Walter fitz Gilbert of Cadzow, an Scoto-Norman comrade of Robert the Bruce, and rose in power to be the leading noble family in Scotland, second only to the royal House of Stewart, to whom they were closely related.



    Maxwell - The name Maxwell originates from Maccus, a Norman lord and son of Undweyn, who gave his name to Maccuswell, a pool of the river Tweed near Kelso bridge. A grandson of Maccus, John Maxwell, became chamberlain of Scotland before dying in 1241, to be succeeded by his brother Aylmer. From Aylmer sprang many branches of the family throughout the south-west of Scotland.


    I came into England with Oak, Ash and Thorn, and when Oak, Ash and Thorn are gone I shall go too.

    Puck of Pook's Hill

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    Senior Member Angus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feisty goddess View Post
    I'm supposedly descended from a French nobleman who was taken hostage, but later did all of these great things for Scotland, or so I like to think, but it may be a bit more complicated than that.
    I'm almost certian that being complicated is a requirement for the French. If you happen to know and are willing to share, I'd be interested in hearing what he did exactly. I know some people are cautious to share family information or History over the net, so a PM would be welcome

    I'd like to hear more about the ones that were of Germanic origin
    I've added maybe 10 more or so since I first created it. Do you see any names that you have in your family? I've got 4; Hays, Lyons, Rollo and Redpath. The particular order can be requested via rep / PM . I haven't added Redpath in yet, but the Clan was mostly disenfranchised after being defeated and disbanded by Clan Home / Hume.

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    Senior Member Angus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diarmuid View Post
    What about the surname 'Rodger'? I've read from various sources that it could be of Celtic or Germanic origin.
    I'm not 100% sure, as I only found very little about the name online, most of which seemed to be a load of nonsense, but it sounds to be an Anglo-Saxon name. It's very likely the majority of the name holders can be found in the borders / lowlands.

    You may want to look to find out if they're a sept of a larger clan, that may help pinpoint their location and possibly their origins.

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    Senior Member Diarmuid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olav View Post
    I'm not 100% sure, as I only found very little about the name online, most of which seemed to be a load of nonsense, but it sounds to be an Anglo-Saxon name. It's very likely the majority of the name holders can be found in the borders / lowlands.

    You may want to look to find out if they're a sept of a larger clan, that may help pinpoint their location and possibly their origins.
    My great-grandfather who had the last name Rodger was from Helensburgh, Scotland. I'm sure if I delved more deeply into the origins of the name I could find more. From what I've read it is a name of Norman origin which originated from a Germanic personal name (the elements of 'hrod' and 'gari'- something similar to Hrothgar). But I've also read that it could be an Anglicized form of the ancient Irish name O'Ruadhraigh. It also could be Anglo-Saxon, as you said.

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    Senior Member Winterfylleth's Avatar
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    I thought this was supposed to be a Germanic forum

    Seriously, how Germanic can a bunch of Northmen be if everywhere they go they give up their language, religion and culture and take up that of the locals? Within a generation or 2 of landing in France, they'd become French-speaking Christians. Within a generation of landing in England they were complaining that their children were dressing, talking and acting like Saxons. When they moved to Scotland and Ireland, they became more Gaelic than the Gaels.

    If you want to talk about Germanic Scots, then talk about Lowlanders and Border Reivers. Gaelic-speaking, tartan kilt-wearing Catholic Highlanders have their own culture, and it most definately isn't Germanic. No doubt you are proud of your Scottish heritage and that's fine. There are plenty of Celtic sites out there where you can discuss Scottish culture. But the idea of a Germanic Scottish clan is an oxymoron. Where are the tartan-clad clans of Scandanavia, or Germany, or England? Where are the kilt-wearing Lowlanders?

    You may think this is a bit of a rant, and for that I appologise. But as an English nationalist it really irritates me when people try to steal my cultural heritage and pass it off as their own. It's hard enough getting recognition for English culture as it is, without having what we do have spread out between all of Western Europe.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Angus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterfylleth View Post

    Seriously, how Germanic can a bunch of Northmen be if everywhere they go they give up their language, religion and culture and take up that of the locals?
    Read this: http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=40754&page=55

    If you want to talk about Germanic Scots, then talk about Lowlanders and Border Reivers. Gaelic-speaking, tartan kilt-wearing Catholic Highlanders have their own culture, and it most definately isn't Germanic. No doubt you are proud of your Scottish heritage and that's fine.
    Ok, so are you saying that the Normans and the Norsemen up in the Northern parts of Scotland aren't Germanic? Surely not. I think you'd find that if you took the time to actually read the posts here, not just the titles and look at some tartan examples you would of realized that there are no Highlander clans listed. Only Germanic clans descended from Anglo-Saxons, Normans and Norsemen.

    There are plenty of Celtic sites out there where you can discuss Scottish culture. But the idea of a Germanic Scottish clan is an oxymoron.
    Incorrect.
    Maybe 200 years or so ago, but not anymore. The "Tartan craze" spread throughout all of Scotland. It gave us Scots something else to be proud of, even the lowlanders.

    Where are the tartan-clad clans of Scandanavia, or Germany, or England?
    Perhaps because we have a different culture than those countries? Surely you've noticed that Norway has a different culture than lets say... Germany. Right? :. Just because countries are Germanic doesn't mean they have the exact same customs and cultures.

    But as an English nationalist it really irritates me when people try to steal my cultural heritage and pass it off as their own. It's hard enough getting recognition for English culture as it is, without having what we do have spread out between all of Western Europe.
    You have no reason to be irritated. Scotland or nobody here has "stolen" your cultural heritage. If you really feel that the Anglo-saxons and the Normans stayed in England then maybe you should go re-read a history book.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Winterfylleth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olav View Post
    Ok, so are you saying that the Normans and the Norsemen up in the Northern parts of Scotland aren't Germanic? Surely not.
    Well Shetland and Orkney are Germanic. Not sure about the mainland. When I was up in Aberdeen it seemed quite Scottish. But look at wikipedia's entries on Shetland and Orkney. Shetland has Norn and Up Helly Aa. As for Orkney, "Tartan, clans, bagpipes and the like are traditions of the Scottish Highlands and are not a part of the islands' indigenous culture". Although it does go on to say it now has 2 tartans and numerous pipe bands. But that's my point. Orkney and Shetland aren't Gaelic. Or at least, they have their own traditions as well as a generic Scottish identity. To a certain extent there is this pan-celtic McCulture.
    Hawaii has it's own tartan FFS! There's even a Yewish and a Buddhist tartan.
    Fair enough if you're actually Scottish and it means something to you, but when every Tom, Dick and Harry sports their own tartan it just becomes meaningless.

    I think you'd find that if you took the time to actually read the posts here, not just the titles and look at some tartan examples you would of realized that there are no Highlander clans listed. Only Germanic clans descended from Anglo-Saxons, Normans and Norsemen.
    ...
    It gave us Scots something else to be proud of, even the lowlanders.
    Fair enough, there's nothing wrong with you being proud of your own culture. But it's Gaelic culture, not Germanic. I didn't notice any posts saying people were distantly related to Rabbie Burns, or about their family's part fighting against the Young Pretender at Culloden, or about the funny looks they get when they wear their tartan trews. Not that they have to say any of that, but that would show something other than Gaelic culture.

    Take Hebrideans. They used to be under the Lord of the Isles. They used to be Norse. But now they have the highest concentration of Gaelic speakers in Scotland. I doubt you'll find any Hebridean who isn't first and foremost a proud Gaelic Scot. And nothing wrong with that. But what does that mean for their Germanic heritage?

    Their having Germanic blood isn't enough. They have to embrace Germanic culture as well. Otherwise we'll be accepting any Jamaican rapper with one English great-great-grandparent as Germanic.

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    True Scotts are Celts. This may come as a surprise, but I hate the vikings. A lot of those Celtic in origin, actually. I've started to do a lot of researche into the Celts and Britain lately. It's very interesting, plus keeps me out of boredom while I'm still in the states.

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    Senior Member Angus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BjornSwede View Post
    True Scotts are Celts.
    Well, I guess myself and over half of the Scottish population are not true Scots then. Pity.

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