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Thread: [Video] Tradition Betrayed: the False Prophets of Modernism

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    [Video] Tradition Betrayed: the False Prophets of Modernism

    An interesting lecture by traditionalist professor Harry Oldmeadow on the problems of modernism and its prophets: Darwin, Marx, Freud and Nietzsche.

    Tradition betrayed: the false prophets of modernism

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldcenturies (youtube comment)
    Only hypocritical Judeo christian morality is false and godless. Artificial morality which is opposite to laws of nature. Darwin had a half-truth about origins of mankind, Marx and Freud were jews who did nothing right, and Nietzsche was right in case of christianity and many others, but liberals stolen and revise his ideas.
    Not much to add to this analysis
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    Yet prof. Oldmeadow has a good point that in a way all four of them are the expression of one single point of view.

    The reply of Oldcenturies doesn't really seem to be addressing the points made in the video. When he says "and Nietzsche was right in case of christianity and many others" he misses the point of Oldmeadow that the reason why Nietzsche opposed Christianity (which was his perspectivism) is exactly a symptom of modern decay and thus something negative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard
    When he says "and Nietzsche was right in case of christianity and many others" he misses the point of Oldmeadow that the reason why Nietzsche opposed Christianity (which was his perspectivism) is exactly a symptom of modern decay and thus something negative.
    And this is your perspectivism

    Which actually brings "discussion" to a dead point, discussion ended. Both sides have outlined their position and there is no more way to exchange ideas.

    But I do nontheless.

    I think the biggest misconception is that Nietzsche is usually regarded as atheist. He was not. He fought christianity because he believed that christianity killed the real gods of Nature (read: the cosmos) and perverted reality and the perception of gods entirely. Nietzsche certainly wasnt a "modernist", quite the opposite, but he believed that the "current modernity" including christian doctrine must be destroyed before humans can return to Natural Order (which is not godless at all).

    It is telling that those self-claimed "traditionalists" are each and every one christians, or even worse those who guise under Heathenism but proclaim monotheism. It is not really surprising that these people consider Nietzsche "evil" and put all sorts of labels on him to discredit his analysis of the negatives of christianity.


    And in general, I find it seriously funny (to use a nice word) that adherents of a made-up new-age invention religion (that quite confused and inconsistent pulled from countless sources to make up its content) that denied each and every other known religion, even the value of that religion which it sprung from most directly, claim for themselves the only valid definition of "tradition", when christianity is the most anti-traditional religion imaginable. And it comes with all the things that these pseudo-traditionalists deem "evil" in modernity: humanism (all people are the same), universalism (Greek 'catholic' even means universal) and relativism (since christianity believes that all people can be christians, regardless of their culture and tradition, which is to be replaced with mindless worship anyway).

    As long as there are "traditionalists" preaching monotheism and christianity, I wont listen to them. It's all a big load of crap and the source for everything that goes wrong in this world. Marx took christian all-humans-are-equal nonsense (and quite a portion of the paradise dogma where no more evil exists and all are happy) and reformulated it to fit on societal structures, not forgetting to strip off "god" and replaces it with "state", the contents remain christian though, Freud was a retard anyway who was sex-obsessed, had an inferiority-complex and someone who had needed a therapy, instead he therapied society.

    Yes I agree that they have both caused maximal damage to Germanic societies, but the reason they were there in the first place to do this damage is christianity. As long as christianity is a part of Germanic societies, our downfall will continue. Christianity is not tradition, in fact it doesnt even possess any spiritual value, it is an entire materialistic sect that eradicated everything really traditional.

    Unfortunately, people like Nietzsche who are able to put this better into words, have always been regarded as "mental", they have been misunderstood because they paint a picture of society and Natural Order where christianity has no more place, a place which it never should have gotten in the first place.

    It was christianity that changed us in order to allow the Jews to hide among us, and indeed, most people do not recognise a Jew, "they are just like us". No they are not, we have become like them! Which is so much relativistic as it possibly gets. And this isnt a problem of "modernity" (as in the last ~200 years or something), this is obviously a problem starting in the Roman Empire, imposing it as states religion upon tribes and people who've never heard of it before.

    And it wasnt welcome either. Time and again christian bishops have been hunted out of annexed territory and heathen order restored. The christian answer was massacres and wars until there was no more people to resist the imposition. And in terms of Germanic tribes this means there were no more strong men and warriors or chieftains, nor priests and law-keepers. Christianity also had, not only through this, a negative impact on the genetic quality of our people. Christianity was and is on so many levels the Germanic people's bane, I could go on endlessly.

    However, christianity is the initial false prophet which paved way for the degeneracies that followed. It is the PROBLEM, so it cannot be the solution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet
    I think the biggest misconception is that Nietzsche is usually regarded as atheist. He was not. He fought christianity because he believed that christianity killed the real gods of Nature (read: the cosmos) and perverted reality and the perception of gods entirely. Nietzsche certainly wasnt a "modernist", quite the opposite, but he believed that the "current modernity" including christian doctrine must be destroyed before humans can return to Natural Order (which is not godless at all).

    It is telling that those self-claimed "traditionalists" are each and every one christians, or even worse those who guise under Heathenism but proclaim monotheism. It is not really surprising that these people consider Nietzsche "evil" and put all sorts of labels on him to discredit his analysis of the negatives of christianity.
    Well, Nietzsche is both actually. He considered himself to be both decadent (which is a symptom of the modern disease) and non-decadent, because of the fact that Nietzsche accepted his sickness in the light of overcoming this sickness. But relativism/perspectivism surely is a modern invention and it was largely this that made Nietzsche oppose Christianity and this is also the part of his philosophy that is addressed in this video. (The professor also mentions that in contrast to the other “prophets” Nietzsche also has some positive things to say.) So it’s not about the fact that he opposes Christianity, but about the underlying perspectivism/relativism that is a symptom of the modern world.
    These traditionalists defend a metaphysical reality, which according to many is still (though perhaps in a lesser degree) visible in the Christian World. You have to seperate Tradition in the Christian World from Christianity though, because according to some Christendom was even traditional despite Christianity. The truth of a higher metaphysical reality can be mediated by a Christian society but also by a heathen society. This metaphysical reality can thus also be displayed by monotheism or polytheism, it doesn’t really matter.
    For the record, the famous traditionalist Julius Evola saw great things in medieval Christian society as well, but still his first work called for a pagan revolt (imperialismo pagano).

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet
    And in general, I find it seriously funny (to use a nice word) that adherents of a made-up new-age invention religion (that quite confused and inconsistent pulled from countless sources to make up its content) that denied each and every other known religion, even the value of that religion which it sprung from most directly, claim for themselves the only valid definition of "tradition", when christianity is the most anti-traditional religion imaginable. And it comes with all the things that these pseudo-traditionalists deem "evil" in modernity: humanism (all people are the same), universalism (Greek 'catholic' even means universal) and relativism (since christianity believes that all people can be christians, regardless of their culture and tradition, which is to be replaced with mindless worship anyway).
    It’s not about defending Christianity, but about defending Tradition which was still preserved in Christianity to a certain extent. It’s this Tradition that they are looking for; the Christian form is actually irrelevant.
    And although it’s not really new-age syncretism that they are striving for, I agree with you that the idea of a religio perennis denies the importance of the ethnic and racial differences which gave birth to all these different religions.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet
    As long as there are "traditionalists" preaching monotheism and christianity, I wont listen to them.
    They only preach Tradition.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet
    Christianity is not tradition, (…)
    It entails aspects of Tradition, which can even be sought for while at the same time doing away with the Christian exterior. It's a bit like pagans trying to understand paganism by looking for the survival of pagan ideas in Christianity.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet
    However, christianity is the initial false prophet which paved way for the degeneracies that followed. It is the PROBLEM, so it cannot be the solution.
    It's rather Tradition that is presented as the sollution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard
    You have to seperate Tradition in the Christian World from Christianity though, because according to some Christendom was even traditional despite Christianity.
    So, when real tradition happens to exist despite christianity, in fact, against its teachings (and this is the problem with christianity in the west, they call themselves christians while their values are more pagan than anything else), what is the merit of keeping it? Since it will always strive to replace real tradition with its own teaching, and at one point it will contain no more tradition when it succeeded to eradicate true value and tradition. Makes absolutely no sense to me

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard
    The truth of a higher metaphysical reality can be mediated by a Christian society but also by a heathen society. This metaphysical reality can thus also be displayed by monotheism or polytheism, it doesn’t really matter.
    Yes, it does matter. Since the mono-perspective perverts truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard
    For the record, the famous traditionalist Julius Evola saw great things in medieval Christian society as well, but still his first work called for a pagan revolt (imperialismo pagano).
    In fact, Evola is such an example who guises as "pagan" while preaching monotheism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard
    It’s not about defending Christianity, but about defending Tradition which was still preserved in Christianity to a certain extent. It’s this Tradition that they are looking for; the Christian form is actually irrelevant.
    No, it's not. Because what we know about our real tradition, and what our people found out about what you call metaphysical reality, is all christian tainted, as such not objective, and as such it must be put under close scrutiny before one can proclaim to have found "tradition".

    I also think that "tradition", as understood by most, is backward and anti-development. It tries to nail down human development at a certain point in time (in case of christianity 2000 years ago) and tries to prevent any "disgression" from this, not realising that this is, imho, not tradition but simple retardism. If tradition is unable to cope with development, then it cannot have a place among man.

    Our gods gave us the runes to learn and understand, and grow on knowledge and wisdom and reach out to the stars. Christianity was the direct opposite, knowledge and wisdom was shunned, education limited to a few who hid it, and reaching to the stars was blasphemy and even satanism, because man's place is in the mud of the earth.

    It is perfectly relevant in what guise "tradition" comes, because our tradition and christian tradition are far from being the same, or aiming at the same end even.

    I also dont believe that "tradition" is a value in and of itself, and one cannot sell any BS to me under that guise just because people 2000 years ago did the same nonsense. It must be able to develop with the society it governs, if it fails to do so, it's not tradition, but a tool for oppression and manipulation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard
    And although it’s not really new-age syncretism that they are striving for, I agree with you that the idea of a religio perennis denies the importance of the ethnic and racial differences which gave birth to all these different religions.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard
    They only preach Tradition.
    But what is "tradition"?

    The video guy only shot against "modernity", and what was left then when "modernity" is removed, was mindless worship or "ora et labora", no individual / spiritual growth, no development, mindlessly repeating rituals deprived of their ability to reach the individual (as they are executed by "initiates", priests, who keep the goal and details to themselves etc) and in fact nothing "human", as everything is placed under the supremacy of the "metaphysical reality", denying real physical reality including human nature.

    But the positives of "tradition", what end it would serve, and how it helps humans to grow is entirely nonexistent. The "traditional human's happyness" there comes from pure materialistic and depersonificated superficialities.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard
    It entails aspects of Tradition, which can even be sought for while at the same time doing away with the Christian exterior.
    Imho doing away with christianity (and entirely) is a precondition to probably find "tradition"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard
    It's rather Tradition that is presented as the sollution.
    Again, what is this "tradition"?

    It was fairly obvious to me that the professor was for one a religious comparativist (==relativist, denying the ethnic differencies of human races) and at best someone who is frustrated with contemporary christianity and who seeks salvation in looking back ~1700 years in time into a group of people (in fact a multicultural hell hole that the Roman empire was, specially in exactly these regions where christianity became 'big') and picks out more superficialities in order to find "tradition" in customs that have nothing to do with neither tradition nor religion, let alone the tradition or religion of ONE people and even less OUR people.

    What do people think to find there? Truth? Guidance? And why isnt the Saxons or Frisians guidance, but a foreign people with an alien religion, weird customs, even weirder laws and taboos and a "god" that went on to declare all of our tradition and belief to be of darkness and Satan and demons?

    Not even the middle age christianity or early "modern age" (before 1500) is guidance, cannot be guidance. Because christianity thrived to eradicate, and did (and where it failed, twisted), our traditions, customs, knowledge, belief, everything that was US had to go for this sect and was replaced with emptiness and platitudes and mindless worship. Not that this would lead them to realise that the entire presence of christianity is wrong, that christianity in and of itself cannot be for our people.

    You see, my problem with these "traditionalists" is that they even consider christianity to have any form of value or worth. To find our tradition, values, truths and customs we have to look far beyond. And then learn anew.
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
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