Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 27

Thread: Goth-Industrial-EBM As Implicitly Racialist?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Sauerteig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Online
    Saturday, October 22nd, 2011 @ 06:49 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Scot, German American
    Ancestry
    Scottish, English, Danish, German, Welsh, Irish
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    New York New York
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Attorney
    Politics
    The Eternal Right
    Religion
    agnostic on the verge of atheism
    Posts
    108
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Goth-Industrial-EBM As Implicitly Racialist?

    In an essay Kevin MacDonald wrote called “Psychology and White-Ethnocentrism,” the author discusses what he called groups that were implicitly exclusionary on a racial basis. Examples he gives include Nascar, Country and Western Music, and—ironically—the GOP. He says such groups intuitively segregate themselves, but dare not to mention what they are.

    Something I have pondered for a very long time is to what extent the so-called “Goth” Industrial, Synth-Pop, EBM scenes are implicitly—or even explicitly—exclusionary on a racial basis. In some ways, I have outgrown this “scene.” I still like the music very much, but I really do not partake in the fashion all that much. I usually wear black slacks, black dress-boots, and a dress shirt of some sort. In the summer time, I wear t-shirts or polos. Also, I have taken to body-building for several years. A lot of the men in the “scene” are underweight, and at times androgynous.

    Go to any Goth, Industrial, EBM venue, and you will see that 95 percent of the patrons are lily white. Most all of the artists are too, most of whom hail from Mother Europa. Several persons I have met at these venues, or online, are expressly racialist. One woman I know of in Seattle, who used to work as a Dominatrix, is a bona fide NS true believer.

    Going beyond that, some bands, particularly industrial and aggrotech bands, seem to have messages as well as imagery that is expressly racialist in nature. Take for example Feindflug. Imagery, sample recordings are laden with references to the Third Reich. They have obfuscated things a bit with sampling and images from the USSR, images and soundbites critical of the death penalty in this country. I saw them at the Kinetik Festival in Montreal. Film montages featured footage of Stukas. Of course, there were also clips of Blacks being brutalized and executed by the US criminal justice system. What I took from it was a criticism of the hypocrisy of the United States, as if to say, who are you Americans to criticize us?

    Other bands with such motifs include Wappenbund and Coinside, der Blutharsch, DIJ, Boyd Rice, early Sol Invcitus and Above the Ruins before that. Funker Vogt also comes to mind. Their lyrics suck, but it so authentically non-native speaker that they have a Teutonic charm all their own. But a lot of their songs are deeply sympathetic to the German side in World War II and the Cold War (eg Black Market Dealers Cold War, see also Vorwaerts! White Trash also seems to be explicitly racially conscious.

    As for what gives me pause, the scene is fraught with bisexuality and homosexuality, and to a much greater extent, androgyny. At the Mercury, a private club in Seattle, I sensed that a number of men were gay, albeit a minority of them were so. I saw a couple of chicks topless save for black tape over their nipples dancing and making out. I would guess they were more likely than not bi as opposed to bona fide lesbians. At such venues one is likely to come across cross-dressers, transgenders, and other freaks. It is also often a scene fraught with sexual exhibitionism. The documentary Goth Cruise featured a black male in the scene who would dress up as a woman.

    Additionally, I have seen a few interracial couples at these venues during my day - BUT they are very far and few between.

    Additionally, a lot of bands are pretty libertine. Take for example the overt sexual themes of Die Form. Not that I am adverse to that, as I am not a prude. But some of the things are pretty risque, if not deviant. Beyond that, a lot of bands have expressed far-left sentiments, including unequivocal denouncements of National Socialism. Some artists include Christian Death, and most particularly das Ich who have expressed many times shames and guilt about being German.

    So what YOU, my fellow contributors here on Skadi? Is the goth, industrial, EBM, synthpop scene implicitly, or even explicitly racialist? Is a fellow like me likely to find a woman with a suitable worldview in this scene? Of course, goth women tend to be a very mixed bag, some of whom are veritable sex goddesses, while the other, lower tier, not so much, but that is a different matter!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Goomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Online
    Tuesday, February 14th, 2012 @ 05:57 AM
    Status
    Prolonged Absence
    Ethnicity
    Germanic/Celtic
    Ancestry
    British Isles / Germany / Netherlands / Norway / France
    Subrace
    Borreby/CM
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Family
    Happily Married w/kids
    Occupation
    Professional
    Politics
    My own
    Religion
    Agnostic with Pagan leanings
    Posts
    735
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    Your analysis is interesting. My taste in music is quite similar...most of the Goth/Industrial/Synthpop bands I listen to are European-based. I note a preponderance of Germanic bands in particular....and with lyrics in German, is it hard for me to discern just what it is they are singing about.

    I can only imagine there are likely some racialist elements. Europe, as a whole, has a much more homogenous population than the US or Canada. Therefore, their cultural identity is more binding because the sense of commonality is greater.

    I tend to like Bi/Gay clubs better here in Seattle....the music is usually better. But, there are enough straight people present that when I go to one of these venues....I don't feel all that *odd*

    It is not surprising that German bands use Third Reich imagery. Germany has never fully recovered from the defeat it suffered in WWII.....and it is quite likely that some sense of guilt subsists to this day over events that most of us cannot even fathom.

    I am one of the most liberal members of this forum because I am not bothered by other races. Yet....my own tastes are generally right in line with my Germanic brethren who are decidedly Germanocentric.

    I think your chances are good....but they are likely going to be the highest IN Europe itself. I simply don't know that many women in your age group who fit the ideal in which you seek.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Sauerteig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Online
    Saturday, October 22nd, 2011 @ 06:49 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Scot, German American
    Ancestry
    Scottish, English, Danish, German, Welsh, Irish
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    New York New York
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Attorney
    Politics
    The Eternal Right
    Religion
    agnostic on the verge of atheism
    Posts
    108
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    I have a sharp ambivlance about the gays that is beyond the scope of this subject. Suffice it to say a lot--but not most--of the artists I like are gay or bi. A lot of the venues although not specifically gay or lesbian, do have a sizeable contingent of that. I tolerate it insofar as they do not bother me or impose on me.

    Incidentally, I highly recommend Kevin MacDonald's works. Might awaken you to the right. One of his essays talks about implicit racial consciousness, as I mention in my initial post.

    On other thing, I find myself sort of lost in no man's land. I like the music, but do not wear goofy makeup or clothes fit for a fifteen year old. I look more like a football player in many respects as I lift weights (or at least did, been out of the gym for more than six months). I think some at these venues look at me as an outsider, even though I have been listening to this stuff for almost 25 years!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Meister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Last Online
    Sunday, August 4th, 2019 @ 03:05 PM
    Status
    Prolonged Absence
    Ethnicity
    German
    Subrace
    Don't know
    Country
    Australia Australia
    Gender
    Posts
    692
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    57
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    74
    Thanked in
    42 Posts
    People like Kevin McDonald really piss me off. Would he say the same about rap? Even though rap pre dominately only appeals to blacks?

    It seems white people cannot have anything that is just theirs, no white countries, no white clubs and now we are not even allowed to have our own art forms and culture.

    Why must we all be the damn same?! It seems to these liberal idiots we have to be or we are racists.

    Of course certain types of music only appeal to white people, you will find it is usually music with intelligence and involved lyrics as opposed to "hey ho, gonna shoot ya all down, hey ho" then again maybe I used too many words then.
    I grew up on a belief of honour, courage and the old world values. The world isn't about that anymore, preferring to die a slow death of fast food and cheap thrills.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Sauerteig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Online
    Saturday, October 22nd, 2011 @ 06:49 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Scot, German American
    Ancestry
    Scottish, English, Danish, German, Welsh, Irish
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    New York New York
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Attorney
    Politics
    The Eternal Right
    Religion
    agnostic on the verge of atheism
    Posts
    108
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Please do not take offense, and please take this in the light in which it is intended, but I think you should educate yourself on who Kevin MacDonald is before you start gunning off. Kevin MacDonald has written a series of books exposing various aspects of Jewish history for what they are. He is intensely interested in and concerned about the preservation of America's European heritage and the preservation of European People's in our ancestral homelands.
    He is not too well liked by Abraham Foxman n' friends:

    http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/kevi...icked=2&item=7

    Also, sadly, rap is probably more liked by dull spoiled rich white kids than the blacks.
    As you obviously have not done so (yet), I cannot recommend highly enough the seminal works of THE OLD MACDONALD: Culture of Critique, the essays featured in Cultural Insurrections and, to a lesser extent, Separation and its Discontents.
    Trust me--this guy is a sage. He has spent years researching Jewish history and the Jewish power structure here and throughout the West. His works may be the KEY that unlocks the truth otherwise hidden from all.

  6. #6
    Spenglerian
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Caledonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Online
    Tuesday, July 26th, 2011 @ 05:30 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Scottish
    Ancestry
    Scotland,England, Germany,Austria,Switzerland
    Subrace
    Alpinid
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    Sverige snart nog
    Gender
    Age
    32
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    RecyclingPlant / College Student
    Politics
    Socially Progressive Nationalism
    Religion
    Atheist, Nihilist, And Mystic
    Posts
    2,432
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    Such music used to be exclusive until a host of minorities at the end of the 90's and early 2000's started infiltrating into it.

    [Goth, industrial, punk, heavy metal, and such..]















    Country music isn't no safe haven either anymore....



    Or.......


    National Socialism is the only salvation for Germanics and Europids everywhere. Capitalism, libertarianism, and communism is the enemy.

    National socialized collectivism must prevail over radical individualism.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Sauerteig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Online
    Saturday, October 22nd, 2011 @ 06:49 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Scot, German American
    Ancestry
    Scottish, English, Danish, German, Welsh, Irish
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    New York New York
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Attorney
    Politics
    The Eternal Right
    Religion
    agnostic on the verge of atheism
    Posts
    108
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    It is still overwhelmingly white. At a (very underwhelming das Ich) show last year, they had this opening act Manufactura featuring some darkie from California. The lyrics sucked, and he was drunk off his ass talking about suicide, killing people in the audience. Finally he threw a bottle of beer at someone in the stage. At that point I heckled him telling him that he sucks and to get off the stage so we can hear das Ich. It was an absolute parody of what the real stuff is all about.

  8. #8
    Spenglerian
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Caledonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Online
    Tuesday, July 26th, 2011 @ 05:30 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Scottish
    Ancestry
    Scotland,England, Germany,Austria,Switzerland
    Subrace
    Alpinid
    Country
    United States United States
    Location
    Sverige snart nog
    Gender
    Age
    32
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    RecyclingPlant / College Student
    Politics
    Socially Progressive Nationalism
    Religion
    Atheist, Nihilist, And Mystic
    Posts
    2,432
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    It would seem our people are not allowed any exclusive musical genres to ourselves. It's like were being drowned into irrelevancy.

    Just look who they have playing classical music at the local theater nowadays.......

    Try listening to a Mozart concerto with that!





    National Socialism is the only salvation for Germanics and Europids everywhere. Capitalism, libertarianism, and communism is the enemy.

    National socialized collectivism must prevail over radical individualism.

  9. #9
    Senior Member RoyBatty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Last Online
    Wednesday, August 23rd, 2017 @ 07:34 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Paleface
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Occupation
    Arbeit Macht Frei
    Politics
    Rightwing / Socialist
    Posts
    2,419
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    12
    Thanked in
    12 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Sauerteig View Post
    In an essay Kevin MacDonald wrote called “Psychology and White-Ethnocentrism,” the author discusses what he called groups that were implicitly exclusionary on a racial basis. Examples he gives include Nascar, Country and Western Music, and—ironically—the GOP. He says such groups intuitively segregate themselves, but dare not to mention what they are.
    It's patently obvious that certain subcultures evolve and exist around certain Nationalities and Cultures. This is a naturally occurring phenomenon amongst all Nations, Races and Cultures.

    Imo Kevin McDonald is full of s*** for sneaking in the "dare not to mention what they are" line. He's implying that there is shame attached to belonging to the group or subculture of your choice - PARTICULARLY IF IT'S A PREDOMINANTLY WHITE GROUP AND YOU ARE WHITE!

    Notice that Kevin made no mention or comparisons of and with the numerous Jewish Organisations, kept stumm about Ghetto Gangbanger Culture, Chicano Culture and so forth.

    Western Media articles are always about the "WHITE" devils who are up to "RACIST WHITE INTOLERANT BEHAVIOUR", in this case, according to him "dressed up as voting for GOP or being a Goth".

    A couple more things:

    The GOP may have been ethnocentric and "white" in the past but nowadays they cannot kiss Chicano butt enough. There simply isn't enough lip gloss in the world to make such a thing possible.

    PS:

    Kevin forgot to include Metal / Heavy Metal. Another predominantly "White" subculture.


    Something I have pondered for a very long time is to what extent the so-called “Goth” Industrial, Synth-Pop, EBM scenes are implicitly—or even explicitly—exclusionary on a racial basis.
    In some ways, I have outgrown this “scene.” I still like the music very much, but I really do not partake in the fashion all that much. I usually wear black slacks, black dress-boots, and a dress shirt of some sort. In the summer time, I wear t-shirts or polos. Also, I have taken to body-building for several years. A lot of the men in the “scene” are underweight, and at times androgynous.
    It's pretty much as you describe it. Mostly White but not necessarily exclusively so. A lot of strange (but interesting) cats who hang around it.


    Go to any goth, industrial, ebm venue, and you will see that 95 percent of the patrons are lily white. Most all of the artists are too, most of whom hail from Mother Europa. Several persons I have met at these venues, or online, are expressly racialist. One woman I know of in Seattle, who used to work as a Dominatrix, is a bona fide NS true believer.
    The scene, culture, music, themes, imagery etc have more in common with whites than with most other races. Much of it is derived from European Culture. Why on earth would Jigaboo Jones want to "get down wit dat" when he'd rather be banging his bass drum, rap and moonwalk?

    Going beyond that, some bands, particularly industrial and aggrotech bands, seem to have messages as well as imagery that is expressly racialist in nature. Take for example Feindflug. Imagery, sample recordings are laden with references to the Third Reich.

    They have obfuscated things a bit with sampling and images from the USSR, images and soundbites critical of the death penalty in this country.
    Industrial, post-Apocalyptic, Scifi, Authoritarian Dictatorship themes go hand in hand with one another. Due to them being "arteeests" they tend to move in Libby Social Intelligentsia Circles, hence the death penalty views.

    I saw them at the Kinetik Festival in Montreal. Film montages featured footage of Stukas.
    The Clash (leftwing Socialist UK Punkrockers) did the same thing back in the days.

    Of course, there were also clips of blacks being brutalized and executed by the US criminal justice system. What I took from it was a criticism of the hypocrisy of the United States, as if to say, who are you Americans to criticize us?
    Probably yes. Perhaps also a criticism of the penal system.

    As for what gives me pause, the scene is fraught with bisexuality and homosexuality, and to a much greater extent, androgyny.. At the Mercury, a private club in Seattle, I sensed that a number of men were gay, albeit a minority of them were so. I saw a couple of chicks topless save for black tape over their nipples dancing and making out. I would guess they were more likely than not bi as opposed to bona fide lesbians. At such venues one is likely to come across cross-dressers, transgenders, and other freaks. It is also often a scene fraught with sexual exhibitionism. The documentary Goth Cruise featured a black male in the scene who would dress up as a woman.
    Additionally, I have seen a few interracial couples at these venues during my day--BUT they are very far and few between.
    Of course, the subculture's not for the feint hearted. There is an element of nihilist appeal.

    Beyond that, a lot of bands have expressed far-left sentiments, including unequivocal denouncements of National Socialism. Some artsts include Christian Death, and most particularly das Ich who have expressed many times shames and guilt aboout being German.
    They're just reacting to their programming. The "intellectual classes" are sheeple too. Elitist, Intelligentsia Sheeple are still = Sheeple.

    So what YOU, my fellow contributors here on Skadi? Is the goth, industrial, ebm, synthpop scene implicitly, or even explicitly racialist.
    It's implicitly racialist to some extent.

    Is a fellow like me likely to find a woman with a suitable worldview in this scene?
    Imo and from your own summary about the scene you're somewhat more likely to find a woman with a rather complex and perhaps somewhat uhm, less conventional worldview. If that's what you're after, this is the place.

    If not you'd be better off getting a girl from the metal scene. They are closer to the average definition of "normal".

    Of course, goth women tend to be a very mixed bag, some of whom are veritable sex goddesses, while the other, lower tier, not so much, but that is a different matter!
    If that's what you're after, great. Personally I'd be a bit hesitant about making long-term plans with ppl from this scene.
    ~ **** Democracy! It's 2 wolves and 1 sheep deciding what's for dinner.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Sauerteig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last Online
    Saturday, October 22nd, 2011 @ 06:49 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Scot, German American
    Ancestry
    Scottish, English, Danish, German, Welsh, Irish
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    New York New York
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Attorney
    Politics
    The Eternal Right
    Religion
    agnostic on the verge of atheism
    Posts
    108
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    I do not disagree with much of what you say. A couple of points:

    Imo and from your own summary about the scene you're somewhat more likely to find a woman with a rather complex and perhaps somewhat uhm, less conventional worldview. If that's what you're after, this is the place.

    If not you'd be better off getting a girl from the metal scene. They are closer to the average definition of "normal".


    Quote:
    Of course, goth women tend to be a very mixed bag, some of whom are veritable sex goddesses, while the other, lower tier, not so much, but that is a different matter!

    If that's what you're after, great. Personally I'd be a bit hesitant about making long-term plans with ppl from this scene.
    __________________
    I am not sure I want a woman from the scene per se. A lot of them seem trapped in a high school mentality. One woman I met with at a venue and necked with before exchanging numbers an leaving stoppe returning calls once I showed her a picture of me in a Packers game (taken while attending a game). She confirmed this was the reason after having bumpe into several times afterwards. It did not seem to matter we liked a lot of the same music, got along swimmingly. . ..
    It would be nice to find a woman who likes the same music, but has evolved frm the scene.
    Also, a lot of the scene strikes me as being geared towards adolescents.
    Ideally, I would like a woman who has just a sprinkling, a light dusting of that look--thin Carice van Houten or Gillian Anderson back in the day. The hardcore look can be rather ridiculous. However, Constance Rudert is a sex goddess.
    Really the most important thing is that my music does not turn off any prospective mates.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. In Pictures: Germany's Goth Festival
    By Aeternitas in forum Folk Art & Culture
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Friday, December 8th, 2006, 06:36 AM
  2. VNV Nation (EBM)
    By NatRev in forum Music & Hymns
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Friday, May 20th, 2005, 09:10 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •