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Thread: Healthcare Systems

  1. #11
    Senior Member Goomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zimobog View Post
    So robbing someone is right if the circumstances warrant it?
    Tell me what you would do if YOUR child was dying of some degenerative disease...and lifesaving care was available.....but your child was denied because you are poor.

    You, the parent, are going to want to do everything to help your child, no? Again....this is a moral dilemma. Of course, no option is going to be ideal. Hence...the dilemma.

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    Robbing your neighbor is acceptable then? Yes or no.

    It sounds like you are saying "yes".

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goomer View Post
    How is the Canadian system treating the immigrants before their own citizens? I ask because my stepchildren have dual Canadian/American citizenship....but they cannot get medical care in Canada at all.
    When I say Immigrants, I mean the Muslims, East Indians, and Negroes that immigrate over here. I do not care if they live here and have their Citizenships, they will NEVER be considered Canadian in my eyes. Why can't your children get medical care here if they have their citizenship? Maybe it is because of the American health care?
    All things must come to the soul from it's roots, from where it is planted. The that is beside the running water is fresher, and gives more fruit.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Goomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zimobog View Post
    Robbing your neighbor is acceptable then? Yes or no.

    It sounds like you are saying "yes".
    You are making this a black and white issue (not racially, but figuratively).

    I said nothing about approval of robbing my neighbor.

    What would you do if it were your child? I did ask you this question...you have not answered it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ælfrun View Post
    When I say Immigrants, I mean the Muslims, East Indians, and Negroes that immigrate over here. I do not care if they live here and have their Citizenships, they will NEVER be considered Canadian in my eyes. Why can't your children get medical care here if they have their citizenship? Maybe it is because of the American health care?
    No. American Health care has nothing to do with it. Not sure why they can't....I just know they can't. My husband would certainly like it if they could....it would relieve some of the horrendous medical costs we've been dealing with of late.

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    Senior Member Patrioten's Avatar
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    Zimobog, you make it out as though the care is equal under your system to that of a public health care system. I.e the emergency rooms treat those in need of care, never turning anybody down. I haven't heard you make the case for leaving people by the wayside if they cant afford care. Essentially those who need care get care is the message I'm getting. Who is paying for this free health care? Tax payers via some government program or are insurance holders also covering part of this cost? What do you think about this set up, that they get care without paying for it? Is this a good system or should they be cut off from getting free or government subsidized care?

    At the end of the day, the care that is provided has to be paid for somehow, and if there's not a situation where care is denied, then someone must be paying for this care. Are charities paying for some or all of this free care?

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    You are making this a black and white issue (not racially, but figuratively).

    I said nothing about approval of robbing my neighbor.

    What would you do if it were your child? I did ask you this question...you have not answered it.
    So tell me "yes" or "no"... it is acceptable to rob your neighbor for any reason at all?

    Than I will answer your question.

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    Senior Member Goomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zimobog View Post
    So tell me "yes" or "no"... it is acceptable to rob your neighbor for any reason at all?

    Than I will answer your question.
    I would not rob my neighbor. I might steal the medicine, though

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrioten View Post
    Zimobog, you make it out as though the care is equal under your system to that of a public health care system. I.e the emergency rooms treat those in need of care, never turning anybody down. I haven't heard you make the case for leaving people by the wayside if they cant afford care. Essentially those who need care get care is the message I'm getting. Who is paying for this free health care? Tax payers via some government program or are insurance holders also covering part of this cost? What do you think about this set up, that they get care without paying for it? Is this a good system or should they be cut off from getting free or government subsidized care?

    At the end of the day, the care that is provided has to be paid for somehow, and if there's not a situation where care is denied, then someone must be paying for this care. Are charities paying for some or all of this free care?
    This is half the problem with these kinds of debates. No one can come up with a viable way to pay for the healthcare. I've always touted the Scandinavian example, even with the knowledge that your tax rates are so high. I'd rather pay higher taxes and know my family is cared for if the *shit should hit the fan* so to speak.

    I do not think the Scandinavian system can ever work in the US, however, just based on the things you and a few of your fellow Swedes/Norwegians have told me on this board.

    So now, I am not sure how we could go about adopting a system whereby all inhabitants would be given access to basic health care.

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    I would not rob my neighbor.
    If you would not rob your neighbor, would it be acceptable to you for a paid agent of the state to rob him/her in place of you doing the stealing?

    Ok, now I will answer your question:

    What would you do if it were your child?
    I would get more work, sell everything I had including my home and vechicles.

    I would start a youtube channel about my child and their condition for donations, ask the bank to open a savings account in their name for people to give to, and begin to ask my family and friends for help. I would approach charities about getting assistance, ask churches etc. I might join a mutual aid society and pay the dues in order to have them help us. I would seek out those

    I would never, never, never condone that someone else have their wealth confiscated in order to benefit myself.

    I have health insurance btw, because I choose to skip many luxuries that others buy in order to pay for it. How much does cost me? Almost as much as my house. That is what it is worth to me.

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    Senior Member Goomer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zimobog View Post
    If you would not rob your neighbor, would it be acceptable to you for a paid agent of the state to rob him/her in place of you doing the stealing?

    Ok, now I will answer your question:


    I would get more work, sell everything I had including my home and vechicles.

    I would start a youtube channel about my child and their condition for donations, ask the bank to open a savings account in their name for people to give to, and begin to ask my family and friends for help. I would approach charities about getting assistance, ask churches etc. I might join a mutual aid society and pay the dues in order to have them help us. I would seek out those

    I would never, never, never condone that someone else have their wealth confiscated in order to benefit myself.

    I have health insurance btw, because I choose to skip many luxuries that others buy in order to pay for it. How much does cost me? Almost as much as my house. That is what it is worth to me.
    Good answer, by the way. For the sake of continued discussion, what would you do if none of that worked? If your child was still dying and you still had no way to get the treatment?

    I'm jealous of you. You live in the state I WANT to live in

  10. #20
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    Patrioten wrote:
    Zimobog, you make it out as though the care is equal under your system to that of a public health care system. I.e the emergency rooms treat those in need of care, never turning anybody down. I haven't heard you make the case for leaving people by the wayside if they cant afford care. Essentially those who need care get care is the message I'm getting. Who is paying for this free health care? Tax payers via some government program or are insurance holders also covering part of this cost? What do you think about this set up, that they get care without paying for it? Is this a good system or should they be cut off from getting free or government subsidized care?

    At the end of the day, the care that is provided has to be paid for somehow, and if there's not a situation where care is denied, then someone must be paying for this care. Are charities paying for some or all of this free care?
    The ideal way for America to have lower cost health care for people is to have a variety of avenues to recieve care. Some will be free, some will be low cost, and some will cost more to fit the different resources of the patients. Removing price controls would allow for the doctors to charge what is fair instead of charging from a bloated price list determined by the government. Allowing tort reform would remove the high cost of malpractice insurance from affecting that of medical care.

    One idea is to use existing medical training facilities to give more people care. Medical schools should have free or no cost care under the supervision of the instructing doctors and nurses. The cost of the medical equipment and space would be paid by the endowments of the benefactors of the school and from the fees paid by medical students in order to have the training. Such as system would attract doctors-in-training from all over the world who wanted to have hands-on experience and would allow for qualifying patients to get more affordable care.

    With the government out of the way, many doctors would choose to open clinics in which they could set the price for their services based on the income of their patients. It happens under the radar now, but the government doesn't like that a doctor is charging a poor person less than a person on the government insurance program. The government demands that these prices remain the same (that is based on their price list). Some doctors may, because they are alturistic, choose to accept a salaried position from a charity to oversee a hospital or clinic that accepts no money.

    Other ideas are out there. Ideas that do not begin with state-enacted robbery of citizens to pay other people's bills.

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