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Thread: What to You is Definitely Germanic? / Universal Germanic Qualities

  1. #21
    Senior Member Matamoros's Avatar
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    I agree with a lot of the things which have already been posted. In particular, the concepts of duty, honour, and loyalty. The more serious mindset. Personal responsibility. The respect of and desire for privacy.

    Some of the things which have been posted resonate very strongly with me - and I think our societies would be better off if these traits occurred more widely.

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    Senior Member Drakkar's Avatar
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    the need for democratic institutions and to hear everyone's say, and the love of freedom and importance of personal belongings and property eyes:

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    Account Inactive Huzar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cennestre View Post
    Germanics are lovers of fine food.
    Well, almost all athe peoples love the good food.....


    Quote Originally Posted by Drakkar
    and importance of personal belongings and property

    Interesting. Personal property importance comes from the priority of the concept of individuality (protestant)...........But, is the protestant phylosophy of life directly connected with Germanic soul ? or is it simply a casual fact ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Solar Wolff View Post
    The concept of social class.
    Are you saying that the concept of social class is inherently Germanic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hussar View Post
    But, is the protestant phylosophy of life directly connected with Germanic soul ? or is it simply a casual fact ?
    The former, Luther was Germanic, it is somehow hard to imagine that such an speeration would have occured in the Slavic or Romance world However this is just my opinion and not based on facts.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Account Inactive Huzar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jäger View Post
    The former, Luther was Germanic, it is somehow hard to imagine that such an speeration would have occured in the Slavic or Romance world However this is just my opinion and not based on facts.

    Effectively, the only fact you report is : "Luther was Germanic"........

    His nationality doesn't prove a direct connection between Germanic ethnicities and Protestant religion.

    Jesus Chist was a Jew from a middle-eastern region, but his religion conquested 100% of European continent........

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    I think it says something that, among European ethnicities, Protestantism is the predominant way in which Germanics manifest their Christianity while some kind of apostolic faith (Roman Catholic, Orthodox, &c.) is the predominant way non-Germanics manifest their Christianity.

    I kind of think of it like isoglosses in dialect maps. When the isoglosses bundle up, you have a dialect boundary. No isogloss is a perfect match with any other, but they do sometimes bundle up in broad bands. Look at a dialect map, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

    I think the Protestant-Apostolic "isogloss" tends to bundle quite nicely with a whole lot of other "isoglosses" in distinguishing Germanics from non-Germanics. That would seem to indicate that there's something about Protestantism and Germanicity that make them get along well with one another to the exclusion of other nations/faiths.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hussar View Post
    His nationality doesn't prove a direct connection between Germanic ethnicities and Protestant religion.
    Protestantism largely follows the Limes germanicus in Europe, and is a religious and cultural expression of Germanic individualism.

  9. #29
    Senior Member SwordOfTheVistula's Avatar
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    Yeah I think what is commonly termed 'the protestant work ethic' is actually Germanic quality. Catholic Germans (Austria and Bavaria) have as good a work ethic as we do, and there doesn't seem to be much of a work ethic at the Ebenezer Baptist Church
    Contact Congress on immigration
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    There is too much to say on this topic and I believe an interesting site on Germanics covers it better than I ever could. Here it is (Germanic morals):

    # Morals:
    # The family; family was very important in Germanic society, old people were cared for until the day they died and it was considered natural to look after eachothers children.
    An average woman got 6 to 7 children in her life, though not every child survived the harsh living conditions of that time because it was not exceptional that over half of the children died during famines, wars, and cold winters so people often chose to have as many children as they could support, another reason for having many children was that those children could care for their parents after they had grown up.
    Although the mortality rate was quite high in that time Germanic families still raised more children than the amount of people that died, this often caused overpopulation which on its turn triggered migrations.

    # Pregnancy; when a woman got pregnant she chose to keep the child most of the times, even when she became pregnant "by accident"; early motherhood was not a sin that had to be hidden away like in many "modern" Christian societies, in Germanic society motherhood was seen as something holy and good mothers were treated with respect.
    Despite this, abortions were not seen as murder, they were sometimes performed but because that time lacked the medical means to perform an abortion in a safe way most women chose to abandon an unwanted child and expose it to the elements, sometimes the child was also left on a place where other people would surely find it, in that way it had a chance of being found and adopted by somebody, for instance a couple who could not have children themselves.
    Most children were abandoned because the parents were too poor to take care of them, other reasons to abandon a child were when it was the result of a rape or when it was severely handicapped; this sounds very cruel to our modern ears but we must not forget that life was very hard in those times and that a family could not afford to raise a child that could never give a positive contribution to its family and society.
    When a woman gave birth to a child it was partially supported by the father's family, and partially by that of the mother, a child of whom the father was unknown was entirely supported by the mother's family.
    During the Viking Age the Norse sometimes placed their children in a foster family, the parents did not do this because they did not like their children but because it created new friendships, extended bloodlines, and often created political alliances; giving a person the care over your child was a sign of great trust and it also strengthened the bonds between your family and that of the foster parents.
    The ability of a woman to have children was seen as something special and in ancient times many people did not know how that could happen so there were many theories about this; women were considered to posess magical powers, children grew in cauliflower, or they were brought by a stork who took them from a children-tree; this kind of fables have continued to this day and many prudish parents still tell this theories to their children, although this beliefs are of a very old origin I highly doubt that most Germans were unaware of the real way to make babies; although they lacked the exact scientifical explanation we have today they must have been aware of the fact that having sex resulted in some kind of fertilization and that the result was a lovely little new human.

    # Social interaction and alcohol; Germanic society was very liberal, women were often considered equal to men and sex was natural and nothing to be ashamed of, lying without a good reason was considered dishonourful and the Germans were very outspoken to eachother; if they hated a person they just told him that and if they liked someone they simply expressed that without shame, they also had a very rude sense of humour and made nasty jokes about eachother without really meaning it in most cases, in most northern European countries the people still have this kind of humour which sometimes even causes a culture-shock in interactions with people from other countries.
    The Germans were also very hospitable to eachother and guests were treated like kings, drinking alcohol was fine too as long as one didn't drank too much, in practice this last rule was not always obliged though.

    "Viking funeral" by F Dicksee 1893 Hávamál:

    11. Byrði betri
    berrat maðr brautu at
    en sé mannvit mikit;
    vegnest verra
    vegr a hann velli at
    en sé ofdrykkja öls.

    12. Er a svá gótt
    sem gótt kveða
    öl alda sonum,
    Því at færa veit
    er fleira drekkr
    síns til geðs gumi.

    11. A worse provision
    on the way he cannot carry
    than too much beer-bibbing;
    so good is not,
    as it is said,
    beer for the sons of men.

    12. A worse provision
    no man can take from table
    than too much beer-bibbing:
    for the more he drinks
    the less control he has
    of his own mind.


    # Sexuality; adultery without the partner's approval was seen as something very inappropriate; Tacitus describes in his "Germania" how a man shaved his adulterous womans' hair off and kicked her out of the house naked, he then chased her through the village while hitting her with twigs, the chance that such a woman would ever remarry was very small, even if she was beautiful or rich she would never find a husband again because she could not be trusted.
    During the early Middle Ages the Saxons and Bavarians even punished adulterers by giving them a piece of rope and forcing them to hang themselves with it, after the body had been cremated the lover was hung above the pile of ash of the adulterer, however; having sex with someone else than your partner was sometimes allowed as long as one's husband or wife approved of it, which they sometimes did since love and sex were seen as separate things.
    Having sex before marriage was no problem and people were not ashamed of nudity; both are later Christian influences.
    A good example from a later period is the Franconian emperor Charlemagne who takes a bath in a river together with his retinue, an emperor being naked in front of his people would have been unheared of in later times, men and women could also bathe together though this was mostly avoided because this often resulted in something else than bathing...
    Having sex with someone who was under 18 was not considered a crime as long as that person was sexually and mentally mature and the differences in age weren't too big, this was common in most ancient cultures and I estimate that the average age to start with sex was between 13 and 16 years old.
    Pedophilia was not accepted and childmolestors were killed in dumped into a bog, homosexuality was not seen as something evil though most people found it a bit odd and probably did not wish to be confronted with it in public, though this depended on the period because I have also heard some examples of extreme intolerance towards homosexual people.

    # Personal hygiene; Bathing was not done often and in those days it was very uncommon to bathe more then once a month, though it is known that in later periods Viking men were very popular among British women because they bathed at least once a week, something that was considered very tidy in that time.
    Despite their indifference about bathing the Germans offered much attention to the other aspects of their personal hygiene; many perfume bottles have been found in Germanic graves and most of them also carried a small case on their belt that contained a comb, tools to clean ones ears and nose, and a razor blade, for most Germans this case belonged to their standard equipment.

    # Racism and tolerance; the Germans referred to non-Germans (like Celts and Romans) with the word "walha", which means "stranger", "slave", or "foreigner" ("walahaz" in Proto-Germanic), the modern name for Wales has been derived from the Anglo-Saxon version of this word ("wealas") which the Anglo-Saxons used to refer to the Welsh Celts.
    One of the reasons why the Germans differed between their own folk and others may have been the belief that the Germanic peoples descend from three tribes that were fathered by the gods, a belief that can be found back in Tacitus' work as well as in later legends.
    Despite what nazi's, racists, and other extremists have claimed in our modern times the Germanic peoples were no racists; they were aware of their kinship and were proud of their identity but without hatred towards other peoples, it is true that some tribes had laws that prohibited marriages with non-Germanic partners but most of them were very tolerant towards other peoples; the Germans believed that all living beings deserved respect, from the largest man to the smallest mouse.
    Most of the misconceptions that exist about this subject have been caused by the nazi propaganda machine that kept pointing to the examples of intolerance that existed in certain tribes, most of the times they could not even find an example that suited their needs so then they simply made one up.
    On the other hand many people nowadays often exaggerate the tolerance of the Germans to fit them into their idea of "political correctness", I have even heard people claim that the Roman occupation of Germanic borderlands was a multicultural society instead of a Germanic population being controlled by a Roman occupation force and a handfull of Celtic bureaucrats in Roman service.
    The ancient Germans did have an "ethnical awareness" but this must not be mistaken for racism; they respected all humans whether they were black or white and they often worked together with other peoples to achieve a common goal, during my research for this site I have noticed that most Germanic tribes were very liberal and open-minded so connecting them to the fascist ideology is very contradictory with the truth, but so is projecting ones own morals on this people because just like the people today the Germans probably also knew many different opinions and levels of tolerance that differed in each person.

    # Freedom; the Germans valued their freedom above everything else, it was the most important value in their life and without it life meant nothing to them.
    After losing a battle they often fled their lands to avoid being enslaved by the conquerors (like the Visigoths during the Hunnic invasion) and Germanic warriors often fought to the death and sometimes even commited suicide after a lost battle, Roman sources give us an even more extreme example; after losing a major battle against the Romans the entire tribe of the Cimbrians committed suicide to avoid being enslaved; the women killed their children, the men killed their women, and then they killed eachother, the last man threw himself into his sword...

    # Honour; another important aspect of Germanic culture was honour, if the honour of a man and/or his family was harmed that person had the right to restore it, even by force; every living being had to be respected including yourself.
    An honourful person had to be prepared to take responsibility for his or her actions because those influenced the surrounding world, if one did evil he would meet evil and he who did good would meet good, the Germans believed that every person would be treated in the same way that he or she treated others and in their personal contacts they took the same approach.
    The duty of a strong person like a warrior was to protect the weak and the innocent and a man was not allowed to hit a woman unless his life was at stake; a man who harmed women or people who were weak, sick, old, or innocent was considered to be a coward and got the same as what he did to others.
    Harming an animal without a good reason was not accepted in Germanic society either, although lifestock was seen as a possession they were still living beings who deserved respect, so for instance a man who was unnecessarily cruel towards a dog risked a beating from the people who saw it, in later times such a person had to pay a fine to the owner of the animal.
    Killing an animal was only allowed to obtain food, hides, or other necessary products or because it posed a danger to humans or livestock, some of the holy animals like for instance the raven (who was associated with the god Wodan) were not to be harmed at all.

    http://www.geocities.com/reginheim/everydaylife.html

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