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Thread: Are Cleft Chins Only Found in Brunns?

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    Post Are Cleft Chins Only Found in Brunns?

    After reading through the description of the Brunn subtype on www.nordish.com I realized that it mentioned that the Brunn had a "typically" cleft chin. I had been recently using it as a signifier of those who were of mixed racial decent. I would appreciate everyones' input on this, as the cleft chin can be found in many odd places.

    http://www.emergency.com/hussein1.htm

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    Post Re: Are cleft chins only found in Brunns?

    Without checking the data, my impression is that some UPs really did not have well developed chins. The original Cro-Magnon for instance and some others said to be of this narrow Cro-Magnon race. Also, it is often said that great distance between the lower incisors and the bottom of the chin is a Nordic characteristic. Again, my personal observation is that this is not necessarily true, especially for the more Hallstatt-looking Nordic. I suspect that the mixed Brunn-Nordics have the greatest chin development. The cleft chin is simply double buttressing, is it not? This would be much the same as the simian shelf on non-human primates. One is on the outside, one is on the inside but both probably function to increase the strength of the jaw without adding too much additional bone.

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    Post Re: Are cleft chins only found in Brunns?

    For whatever reason the deepest mandibles that I have seen are on the British Isles, regardless of nation. One example that I can think of is NATO Secretary General George Robertson.


    He strike me as Borreby. I have often observed this type in Britain, stocky build, deep mandible and often cleft chin, very fair and rosy skin complexion, very dark brown (often the ashen series) hair, very thin lips and narrow eye aperture. Do you guys know any details about it?

    Among the Nordid varieties in Scandinavia Göta type have the most retreating and weakest mandibles.
    Last edited by Glenlivet; Thursday, July 1st, 2004 at 08:22 AM.

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    Post Re: Are cleft chins only found in Brunns?

    Another one is Gerald Ford.

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    Post Re: Are cleft chins only found in Brunns?

    I don't know, I know a girl who is phenotypically pretty much a textbook-perfect alpine but has a very distinct chin cleft, like someone put a big dent right in the middle of her chin...

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    Post Re: Are cleft chins only found in Brunns?

    Perhaps Coon was incorrect in saying that Osterdal Nordics have a very deep chin. My experience (although limited) with Upper Paleolithic subtypes is very large features compared to Nordics. It's hard to say though, because there is few Osterdal types that escaped atleast partial mixture with Brunn and Borrebys. This subject of length and width of mandibles requires more study.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; Thursday, July 1st, 2004 at 10:10 PM.

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    Post Re: Are cleft chins only found in Brunns?

    www.nordish.com: Race Gallery:

    Brünn:
    "The malars are wide, the lower jaw deep and broad, and the chin is prominent and typically clefted."

    Borreby:
    "...due mostly to the great mandibular width and the prominence of the frontal and parietal tuberosities - while round faces are almost as common. The jaw is rather deep..."

    Hallstatt Nordic:
    "The lower jaw is long and deep with a well-developed chin, and the distance from the lower teeth to the chin is remarkably great."

    Keltic Nordic:
    "The Keltic face is long and narrow, and the chin is strongly developed."

    Anglo-Saxon:
    "...and the jaw is prominent. Both Brünn and Borreby features are visible."

    It appears from this data that chin depth is usually not diminished or negated by mixture between UP's and Central Nordics. This is very strange indeed, as by simply looking at the various subtypes you can see the great differences in chin formation. This picture I consider to be of a pretty typical Irish Brünn. Would you describe this chin as deep?

    http://forums.skadi.net/attachment.p...id=15224&stc=1
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; Thursday, July 1st, 2004 at 10:34 PM.

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    Post Re: Are cleft chins only found in Brunns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Volksdeutscher
    For whatever reason the deepest mandibles that I have seen are on the British Isles, regardless of nation. One example that I can think of is NATO Secretary General George Robertson.


    He strike me as Borreby. I have often observed this type in Britain, stocky build, deep mandible and often cleft chin, very fair and rosy skin complexion, very dark brown (often the ashen series) hair, very thin lips and narrow eye aperture. Do you guys know any details about it?
    George Robertson looks to me undoubtably a mixture of Brunn and Litoroid, with perhaps some Atlanto-Med responsible for the greater length of the face than is usual with either of the two former.
    So I think the type you have observed is probably a mixture of two or three elements. Certainly the very dark brown hair is not at all characteristic of the Borreby type, even in Britain; blonds in the British Isles most often have Borreby influence.

    As for cleft chins, I suppose its just the same as any other given trait, like brachycephaly for instance; Alpines are brachycephalic, but being brachycephalic does not make one an Alpine.
    Anyway, cleft chins do seem to be fairly characteristic of Brunns, and it also seems to be common among Litoroids.

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    Post Re: Are cleft chins only found in Brunns?

    It would then be from an Armenoid origin. I assume you use Litoroid from Lundman.

    http://dienekes.ifreepages.com/blog/...es/000069.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhydderch
    Anyway, cleft chins do seem to be fairly characteristic of Brunns, and it also seems to be common among Litoroids.
    Last edited by Glenlivet; Friday, October 22nd, 2004 at 09:14 AM.

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    Post Re: Are cleft chins only found in Brunns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Volksdeutscher
    It would then be from an Armenoid origin. I assume you use Litoroid from Lundman.
    The race I am calling Litoroid is quite distinct from Armenoids. Armenoids are said to have a hooked nose and long face whereas this type has a straight nose, and if anything, tends towards a rather broad face, and the forehead is usually fairly steep and large. The only particular similarity with Armenoids is the bushy eyebrows which are often joined above the nose, and the fact that the tip of the nose is often depressed.

    I had actually noticed the presence of this race some time ago, and for a while I thought it did not seem to have been noticed by any anthropologist, which puzzled me because it appears to be quite common in both southern Europe and the British Isles. However a few weeks ago I found references to a race known variously as Littoral, Litorid, Litoroid etc. which seems to fit the description of what I had observed. There is a race around Romania which one anthropologist (can't recall his name at the moment) has called Carpathid which also seems to fit the description.

    I'm not sure if it was Lundman I got the name from and I suppose I cannot be 100% certain that the type I have observed is actually the one known as Litoroid, but whether or not it has that particular name there is no doubt in my mind as to the existence of this rather short, stocky, dark-haired and swarthy race.

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