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Thread: Meets Jesus

  1. #11
    Senior Member Turificator's Avatar
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    Post Re: Socrates Meets Jesus

    I'm sorry, Azdaja... I get the idea of angels, but what I don't get is why the Christian God, who is both benevolent and perfect, let's people get hurt for eternity. Is it perhaps because he is 'benevolent' ('good') in a way we cannot fathom? Would you or any other care to explain or perhaps refer me to some site? Sorry, I am very ignorant on the whole matter. Cheers.
    BLUT UND BODEN!

    Some find it in a flag, some in the beat of a drum
    Some with a book, and some with a gun
    Some in a kiss, and some on the march
    But if you're looking for Europe, best look in your heart

    (Sol Invictus)

  2. #12
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Socrates Meets Jesus

    I fear that there is no answer to the conundrum of how the Benevolent Creator of All, who is All Good, All Powerful, All Seeing and All Knowing, allows evil and suffering into His World.

    The usual answers, stammered by the 'Jesus' above, which revolve around 'freewill' and a 'fallen angel', really don't cut it!

    In such a case [i.e., where your theory has a serious hole in it], philosophers usually look at the validity of their premises [i.e., in this case the God described above] and then revise or reject them.
    Unfortunately theologians won't, in the main, do that.
    The have to try and make 'the facts' [in this case 'the world'!] fit their faulty premise!

    Can we really take them seriously on this level, these admirers of the Almighty Dog?



    The Lord Dog doth admire His creation!
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

  3. #13
    Senior Member Ominous Lord Spoonblade's Avatar
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    Post Re: Socrates Meets Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless
    I fear that there is no answer to the conundrum of how the Benevolent Creator of All, who is All Good, All Powerful, All Seeing and All Knowing, allows evil and suffering into His World.

    The usual answers, stammered by the 'Jesus' above, which revolve around 'freewill' and a 'fallen angel', really don't cut it!
    We are multifarious -we know pain, happiness, sorrow, lust, desire, love, etc. Christianity embraces only part of this, and condemns the rest as "evil". Though it cannot ignore that 'evil' aspect of human nature. Thus they become devils. This is an excuse for the 'bad' in the world, as well as a compensation.

    Pantheist religions have gods for everything; it is accepting of every facet of human nature and does not have this problem. Who questions the anger of Zeus? Well, he never claimed to be 'all-good'. Neither are any gods 'all-bad'.

    The Christian God allows suffering because he has to! He is an ascetic!
    I envision a world where people dawning long white robes and elaborate headdresses run rampant down the streets, waving their arms in the air while screaming "we've gone mad, we've gone mad", like defrocked monks breaking the silence of ages past.

    Spoonblade: Sharper than a knife and twice as deadly.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Moody's Avatar
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    Post Re: Socrates Meets Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by Marla
    We are multifarious -we know pain, happiness, sorrow, lust, desire, love, etc. Christianity embraces only part of this, and condemns the rest as "evil". Though it cannot ignore that 'evil' aspect of human nature. Thus they become devils. This is an excuse for the 'bad' in the world, as well as a compensation.

    Pantheist religions have gods for everything; it is accepting of every facet of human nature and does not have this problem. Who questions the anger of Zeus? Well, he never claimed to be 'all-good'. Neither are any gods 'all-bad'.

    The Christian God allows suffering because he has to! He is an ascetic!
    The basic difference is that Christianity is a moral religion, while polytheistic religions of the Aryan kind tend to be supra-moral.
    By that I mean that the latter relegate moral concerns to a sphere of lesser import. In descending order they say;

    1 Spirituality
    2 Morality

    Christianity reversed this order in its transvaluation of values, placing thus;

    1 Morality
    2 Spirituality.

    We see this emphasised in fundamentalist forms of Xtianity; everything is of the letter and very literal. All that matters is that the moral codes are endlessly promulgated and incised into the very flesh of 'believers'.
    Morality and literalism

    Aryan religion though places the spiritual quest above the moral. Think of the Bhagavad Gita where killing is not seen as good or bad but as indifferent - no sinfulness there. A warrior must kill as that is his fate; he is born into that caste and must become what he is. And because life is seen over-ridingly as the Spirit, then death as such is meaningless.

    I agree that a moral religion banishes certain affects, certain actions, certain thoughts. It either tries to eradicate them or to damn them. The Xtian is therefore a being who is in bits - he is not a complete man.

    His will to power is severely cicumscribed in most of its aspects.
    But there is a stroke of genius here; all his will to power is CONCENTRATED in the moral; he becomes a moral monster - an Inquisitional, Cromwellian Victorian school ma'm.
    Only against this backdrop, and in reaction to it, could a de Sade erupt.

    But compare this to Aryan systems such as Tantra, Kama Sutra etc., where the will to power flows through sexuality, for example, free of all guilt or Sadism.
    So just as with the Gita where the art of war is free and blissful, so too is sex.

    I regard all circumscribing, moralistic and sleazy elements as being the result of non-Aryan influence.
    Xtianity is essential non-Aryan in its moral aspect.
    This moral obsession is a semitic one, an alien one [our Jews are masters of squalid smut].

    This is not to say that there is no need for a morality; of course, but it must be a Master Morality.

    To healthy Aryanism, the Priests are NOT the top caste, the warriors are. Xtianity makes the priest king or Pope - it tries to subjugate the warrior in its moral oppression.
    The warrior should rule, and the warrior is the MOST SPIRITUAL of beings, NOT the priest.

    Look at the Samurai Hagakure - the Way of the Warrior is really so very spiritual; we knew this in Europe but centuries of Xtian moral monstership has eroded this nobility and has made the warrior the tool of the priest and the politician.
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, June 7th, 2004 at 04:40 PM. Reason: missed word
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Post Re: Socrates Meets Jesus

    How can angels simply be extensions of God, how can angels have no free will?

    Lucifer was an angel - an extension of God. God made Lucifer rebel; and he makes what he became, Satan, do evil now. Therefore, God does evil.

    Where have I gone wrong?

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    Post Re: Socrates Meets Jesus

    No mention of 7 headed dragons? And your talking about Christianity???

  7. #17
    Senior Member Karpaten Befreier's Avatar
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    A few fundemental mistakes in this. I won't go to deep into it, but I'll give it a start. The King James Bible has many translation errors. In the original forms of the bible, the people who have wronged would eventually be judged and be saved. The word used is "eon", meaning "long period of time" not "eternity".

    Everything good comes from God. There can be no good if there is no evil (relativity). God gave his creations the ability of free will, with which they could choose.

    Satan rebelled against God because he lusted for power, not because he wanted to stop some evil regime. Any good king would want his people to love him for the good things he has done, just like God does.

    I don't want to go too deep into it. If anybody wants to clarify some points, send me a private message so I don't have to waste anyone's time with things they're not interested in.

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    Senior Member Kauz R. Waldher's Avatar
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    There is but one answer ... yahweh is cruel! Bottom line. Just look at the old testament. You mean to tell me that this is the same "loving" god as in the new testament? If it's the same god, then we can plainly see that that god is a cruel, demented god. Which would explain the state of the world. So there you have it christians. Have fun in your "slave paradise". Exactly why I was a Satanist when I was a kid, then a Gnostic Luciferian and now an Esoteric Wotanist where i'll finish my existence here in Midgard.
    "The mystery and secret of Wotan is not that "knowledge" of him is passed along through clandestine cults or even through the re-discovery of old books and texts--but rather that such knowledge is actually encoded in a mysterious way in the DNA, in the very genetic material, of those who are descended from him." - Secret of the Gothick God of Darkness

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    Asinine exchange. Socrates was a monotheist. Ever heard of the "Form of the Good"?
    οὐκ ἐμοῦ, ἀλλὰ τοῦ λόγου ἀκούσαντας ὁμολογεῖν σοφόν ἐστιν ἓν πάντα εἶναί.
    Heraclitus

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