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Thread: The Concept of Race Soul

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    Re: On The So-Called 'Race Soul' [Evola]

    Evola: The Active Nihilism of Nietzsche

    http://members.tripod.com/thompkins_cariou/id82.html

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    Re: On The So-Called 'Race Soul' [Evola]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arrian View Post
    Evola: The Active Nihilism of Nietzsche

    http://members.tripod.com/thompkins_cariou/id82.html
    "The positive function of nihilism dwells in the dangerous test of the complete liberation of the individual ; if he does not want to fall, he has to find, in himself alone, a firm point, and to make himself capable of an absolute affirmation. Therefore, nihilism is 'instrumentalised', in the service of the rising of a superior type and a new morality. By means of its spiritual destructiveness, it creates a situation of challenge. And it is precisely here that, through bitter struggle, an absolute sense of existence is sought and found, and, beyond man, the 'superman' is brought into being."
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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    Re: On The So-Called 'Race Soul'

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Lawless View Post
    "all racial differences disappear after death".
    I am of the 'no soul in the first place' camp. But hindus consider all souls to be part of one 'Brahman', so no individual race-souls. Race certainly is more than skin-deep, perhaps what is meant is different tradition of any race, that is the soul of the race.

    After death, the 'pitris' (manes) do not retain racial characterstics because they become one with 'Brahman'. That means ancestors of Vikings, Negroes, Indians, Chinese and all are merged in one, 'Eko Brahma, dwiteeyo nasti', (there is one 'Brahman', there is no second). The differences are only while we live.

    p.s. - If we could understand this, the world would be a lot better.
    Last edited by Aupmanyav; Sunday, September 24th, 2006 at 03:39 AM.

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    Re: On The So-Called 'Race Soul'

    Quote Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
    ...

    After death, the 'pitris' (manes) do not retain racial characterstics because they become one with 'Brahman'. That means ancestors of Vikings, Negroes, Indians, Chinese and all are merged in one, 'Eko Brahma, dwiteeyo nasti', (there is one 'Brahman', there is no second). The differences are only while we live.

    p.s. - If we could understand this, the world would be a lot better.
    This might constitute a new thread; but I think it self-evident that it is precisely the wide acceptance, and secular ethical assimilation, of this understanding that has made the world a lot worse.

    This is alluded to throughout this thread; and the Atman-Brahman equation is also touched on (did you read it in its entirety?)

    I think your post script needs some expansion, as your explication is not Universal. Recognition of the Atma is different within Buddism and Hinduism; and there are still further divisions and understandings within each e.g. Dvaita and Paramatma/Jiva in Hinduism--from which, there is no good metaphysical argument against not only the survivial of Racial characteristics after death; but, and also, no good argument for the indivisibility of Brahman within the Brahman, itself. In short, the Brahman may be (o)ne and also a heirarchy of many, thereby making it (O)ne--which would complete a definitive totality.

    The lack of recognition of this is the cause of much malaise; if we re-cognise this, Arya wouldn't be the caricature of its former self that it is today.
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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    Re: On The So-Called 'Race Soul'

    I understand there are many religions in the world and many beliefs in hinduism itself. I was talking about my belief, i.e., Advaita (no second). As I said I belong to the 'no soul in the first place' camp. For me a human body is composed of atoms, and the atom is nothing but a quantum field. Now the quantum field cannot be different in you or me. That is why I consider race not to be the most important thing in a human. Yes, we all have our physical characterstics, history, traditions, and beliefs, which also are important. (135 posts and 14 pages, do you think anybody could read it in its entirety)
    Last edited by Aupmanyav; Sunday, September 24th, 2006 at 04:54 PM.

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    Re: On The So-Called 'Race Soul'

    Quote Originally Posted by Aupmanyav View Post
    I understand there are many religions in the world and many beliefs in hinduism itself. I was talking about my belief, i.e., Advaita (no second). As I said I belong to the 'no soul in the first place' camp. For me a human body is composed of atoms, and the atom is nothing but a quantum field. Now the quantum field cannot be different in you or me. That is why I consider race not to be the most important thing in a human. Yes, we all have our physical characterstics, history, traditions, and beliefs, which also are important. (135 posts and 14 pages, do you think anybody could read it in its entirety)
    I.) You have entered a Philosophy forum, friend. I am not trying to be hostile--I am asking questions.

    You seem to have a conflict between what, exactly, it is that you 'believe'. I am requesting more information as to how you reconcile belief #1.) There is no soul in the first place; and belief #2.) Advaita (Brahman as singularity with no, yet all, attributes).

    You seem to have replaced Brahman with Quantum Physics. Okay, the problem with that is that the quantum field does not cluster power or energies/waves equally throughout space-time. The waves or particles (depending on your camp and M.O.) that comprise me are indeed different in quanta that comprise you.

    I am not writing to myself.

    These questions pertain to this particular post.

    II.) "I am of the 'no soul in the first place' camp. But hindus consider all souls to be part of one 'Brahman', so no individual race-souls. Race certainly is more than skin-deep, perhaps what is meant is different tradition of any race, that is the soul of the race."

    You place both your subrace and Tribe in the "Hindu/Aryan" category.

    Therefore, by implication, you say contradictory things:

    1.) I am a Hindu, there is no soul
    2.) I am a Hindu, there is Brahman (or, world soul)

    *I do, indeed, think that the entirety of this thread not only can be read; but ought to be read so as to make the most of it, and one's desire to post in it.

    Moreover, the crux of my initial question to you was to help your audience understand how: "After death, the 'pitris' (manes) do not retain racial characterstics because they become one with 'Brahman'. That means ancestors of Vikings, Negroes, Indians, Chinese and all are merged in one, 'Eko Brahma, dwiteeyo nasti', (there is one 'Brahman', there is no second). The differences are only while we live.

    p.s. - If we could understand this, the world would be a lot better."

    A strong argument to the antithetical contrary was established over the development of the thread. Ergo, my comment: "I think it self-evident that it is precisely the wide acceptance, and secular ethical assimilation, of this understanding that has made the world a lot worse."--and the request that you demonstrate the assertion in your post script in some way.


    Many thanks.
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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    Re: On The So-Called 'Race Soul'

    Dear friend, there is no question of being hostile. We are only discussing things. There is no conflict in my views. 'Brahman' is how hindus call the universal substrate which is nothing solid but seems to us to be. That constitutes humans, animals, vegetation, and what we take as non-living things. It is the substrate which does all that we seem to do. You are right, the field is not uniformly spread, that is why we have the so-called empty space and galaxies.

    The quantas, or field that we are comprised of are nothing static. They change all the time in everything in the universe, as I like to say, every attosecond (that is the smallest interval of time that I find mentioned, 10 raised to power -12 of a second). You and me are only illusions (of scale). My being a Hindu and an Aryan are other such illusions when I loose the sight of the fact that I am really Brahman. I am a hindu (generally believe what hindus believe, though there are differences in detail), but I believe no bird which will fly away when I am dead, and when I am dead all what I think will get erased.

    I will quote a very famous verse in hinduism from YajurVeda (the second Veda out of the four) of the Aryans:

    'Purnamadah Purnamidam, Purnat Purnamudachyate;
    Purnasya Purnamadaya, Purnameva Vashishyate.'
    (That is whole, this is whole, this whole is said to come out of that whole;
    if this whole is subtracted from that whole, what remains is still whole.)

    Note: Purna (whole). I will surely go through the whole thread, it is only question of finding time. Regards.
    Last edited by Aupmanyav; Tuesday, September 26th, 2006 at 09:15 AM.

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    The Deathless Self - through the One, appears Multiplicity

    The Deathless Self

    "As the Web issues out of the Spider
    And is withdrawn.
    As Plants sprout from the Earth.
    As hair grows from the body, even so,
    The Sages say, this Universe springs from
    The Deathless Self, the source of Life.

    The Deathless Self meditated upon
    Himself and projected the Universe
    As Evolutionary Energy.
    From this Energy developed Life, Mind,
    The Elements, and the world of Karma,
    Which is enchained by cause and effect.

    The Deathless Self Sees all, Knows all.
    From him
    Springs Brahman, who embodies the River
    Of Evolution into name and form
    By through the One, appears Multiplicity."


    from the Mundaka Upanishad: Two Modes of Knowing.

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    Wow, I can see this is a very old thread (in internet-terms anyway, five years might as well be a century, lol) but I can not help but bump it because I find the topic so interesting.

    "Does the soul retain racial characteristics?"

    In my opinion, absolutely yes it does. Here is my rationale: First, I don't believe that our personality can simply be explained away as a function or side effect of our circumstances alone. From my experiences with my children and step-children it seems completely self-evident to me that all human beings have certain individual personality traits that are permanent fixtures throughout their lives. This, to me, is all the evidence that is necessary to prove that we have some kind of individual soul.

    Second, the influence that our genes have upon us has an enormous effect upon who we are in terms of personality. Once again I know this though my personal experiences. For example, a very close friend of mine was adopted as an infant and until she was in her twenties she had never met her birth-mother. When she eventually did meet her birth mother the traits that the two shared were so numerous as to be comical. Perhaps this was an isolated incident, but from my (admittedly limited) research on the topic these kinds of stories seem to be the norm.

    Therefore, if we each have an individual soul that is at least as much the result of our genetic make-up as it is the result of our physical circumstances then it would follow that our soul is, at least to some degree, shaped by our genetic or racial characteristics.

    I was speaking to a friend once about the nature of the double-helix structure that binds our DNA and she had mentioned a theory that there may be a corresponding metaphysical "third helix" that controls the manifestation of the "soul" or personality in our genetic code in the same way that DNA controls the physical manifestation.

    Having said this, a "race" is an enormous and diverse genetic population. Even specifying only "germanic" peoples as a race would require a very large set of genes, genes that may be present in many other races as well. Therefore, I tend to think that though our souls do retain "racial" characteristics it would be more accurate to say that our souls retain "familial" characteristics, and that a "race" is actually more of a super-grouping of a multitude of related familial lines.

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    "Does the soul retain racial characteristics?"

    The initial question is posed the wrong-way-round; implying the physical imprinting on the metaphysical rather than the physical being a base reflection of the metaphysical.

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