View Poll Results: Do you believe in Reincarnation?

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Thread: What Are Your Opinions on the Possibility of Reincarnation and "Past Lives"?

  1. #1
    Account Inactive Hellenic Eagle's Avatar
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    What Are Your Opinions on the Possibility of Reincarnation and "Past Lives"?

    Reincarnation pressumes the existence of an immortal Psyche (Soul) to all humans (it also pressumes that for all living creatures, but it is not what i am interested in here in this post).

    This immortal Psyche that we all have, is what makes us "alive".

    According to the theory of reincarnation, Psyches reincarnate to other bodies, and live again on earth after some time has passed from the death of the (last used) material body.

    In how much time will the Soul come back to "haunt" the next body, is something that many different opinions have been heard about. The Psyche is also supposed to leave this earthly realm of countless reincarnations and be united with the Cosmic/Universal Psyche, usually when the personal Psyche has reached a point of perfection/cleanliness/godliness/universalism, alike that of the God/Cosmic Soul/Universal Soul/etc.


    The "Laws" that govern the personal Psyche's trip to earthly incarnations, escape to Godly/Cosmic heavenly realms, or be eventually destroyed due to very intense and destructive attraction to matter/material things, is an issue that is differently discussed and theoretically appreciated by many different civilisations around the world, and in the span of history on this earth.

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    Senior Member Oskorei's Avatar
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    Post Re: Do you believe in Reincarnation?

    The modern theory of reincarnation is a degeneration of the original. The original theory went something like this: A human is made up by several parts/building-blocks, and after death they are usually separated and re-used. And that is not what most New-Agers mean when they talk about reincarnation. Apparently reality is a little more grim than New Agers believe There are ways to reincarnate the "united" person, however, described in Yoga of Power by Julius Evola, and in the Tibetan Book of Death (havent read it, but Evola says so). Once in a while, these ways are probably also discovered by accident by some recently deceased, so New Age-style reincarnation is not an impossibility for anyone with some willpower.

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    Account Inactive Hellenic Eagle's Avatar
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    Post Re: Do you believe in Reincarnation?

    Are you saying that you believe reincarnation is a matter of personal will power??!!

    If this is true, then the supposed universal and cosmic laws of reincarnation do not exist.

    As for the new age or ancient theories on reincarnation, as i said, they exist very different approaches to reincarnation among different cultures and they have come to be mixed up in the way up to our times, so i do not think it is of great importance to take the part of one approach or the other. May i remind you that none of these approaches is scientifically proven? So it is not very productive to argue on the basis of If...1 or If....2 or If....3, meaning, which of the Ifs is more likely to be true..

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    Senior Member Oskorei's Avatar
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    Post Re: Do you believe in Reincarnation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Eagle
    Are you saying that you believe reincarnation is a matter of personal will power??!!
    Sort of. Usually the parts of the "soul" are recycled, but not necessarily together with each other. But with will power and/or knowledge, the ancients believed that fate could be avoided. Either you could avoid being reborn at all, and join the immortals, or you could at least choose some of the circumstances of the next reincarnation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Eagle
    If this is true, then the supposed universal and cosmic laws of reincarnation do not exist.
    Probably those universal laws were a later invention. Humans dont always like the truth of the universe, and the fact that the "I" will cease to exist when I die must be one of the facts that are hardest to face. So its no wonder that various answers to that came up, like Heaven and the later Hindu reincarnation-theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenic Eagle
    As for the new age or ancient theories on reincarnation, as i said, they exist very different approaches to reincarnation among different cultures and they have come to be mixed up in the way up to our times, so i do not think it is of great importance to take the part of one approach or the other. May i remind you that none of these approaches is scientifically proven? So it is not very productive to argue on the basis of If...1 or If....2 or If....3, meaning, which of the Ifs is more likely to be true..
    Agreed. Since all of us are alive, we dont really know We can only take what is handed down to us from tradition, and judge that with our intuition.

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    Post Re: Do you believe in Reincarnation?

    No I dont....although this is not a question I really focus much attention on.

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    Post Re: Do you believe in Reincarnation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taras Bulba
    No I dont....although this is not a question I really focus much attention on.
    There are some odd verses in the Bible though, especially regarding a connection between Elias and John the Baptist. According to a Jewish tradition, the arrival of the Messiah would be preceded by the return of the prophet Elias.

    I quote:

    7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
    8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
    9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
    10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
    11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
    12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
    13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
    14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
    15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
    King James Version, Matthew 11

    And:

    10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
    11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
    12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
    13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
    King James Version, Matthew 17


    It seems John the Baptist was a reïncarnation of the prophet Elias. This, of course, does not mean Christianity claims reïncarnation occurs as a rule, but it does seem to imply that it at the very least happens as exception to the rule.

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    Senior Member Oskorei's Avatar
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    Post Re: Do you believe in Reincarnation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried Augustus
    It seems John the Baptist was a reïncarnation of the prophet Elias. This, of course, does not mean Christianity claims reïncarnation occurs as a rule, but it does seem to imply that it at the very least happens as exception to the rule.
    It seems to be common among New Agers to claim that the early Christians to some extent believed in reincarnation, and that it was first declared heresy in the 300's.

    Is this based on truth, or are they referring to some Gnostic Christians, unaffiliated with the Church?

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    Post Do you believe in Reincarnation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried Augustus
    There are some odd verses in the Bible though, especially regarding a connection between Elias and John the Baptist. According to a Jewish tradition, the arrival of the Messiah would be preceded by the return of the prophet Elias.

    I quote:

    7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
    8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
    9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
    10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
    11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
    12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
    13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
    14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
    15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
    King James Version, Matthew 11

    And:

    10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
    11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
    12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
    13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
    King James Version, Matthew 17


    It seems John the Baptist was a reïncarnation of the prophet Elias. This, of course, does not mean Christianity claims reïncarnation occurs as a rule, but it does seem to imply that it at the very least happens as exception to the rule.

    Thats very thought provoking indeed......too bad Im not interested enough to debate it further. Notions of the afterlife, spiritual beings that protect us(angels or whatever), miracles, and most other supernaturual topics are not things I usually like to debate about. My Christianity is more earth-bound, in a strange paradox. It's not that Im entirely disinterested in such matters, I just usually allow others to debate the issue for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oskorei
    It seems to be common among New Agers to claim that the early Christians to some extent believed in reincarnation, and that it was first declared heresy in the 300's.
    That seems to be the view put forth these days.....Im not an expert on this question, for eschatological questions bore me to death.

    For those who dont know what eschatology, it's the study of last things: death, the destiny of the soul(heaven or hell), the end times(discussions on this work quicker than sleeping pills on me), and so on. Oh well, maybe it's just my young age that counts for my disinterest. The only thing about eschatology that interests me is the question of ultimate things, ie what the ultimate purpose of things(since something must have a purpose if it comes to an end so to speak).

    Is this based on truth, or are they referring to some Gnostic Christians, unaffiliated with the Church?
    Probably, since the Gnostic Christians are now being upheld as what the church really believed in before Constantine suppressed them. Alot of BS, but oh well there you have it.
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, March 19th, 2007 at 03:58 PM. Reason: merged consecutive posts

  9. #9
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    Post AW: Re: Do you believe in Reincarnation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oskorei
    The modern theory of reincarnation is a degeneration of the original. The original theory went something like this: A human is made up by several parts/building-blocks, and after death they are usually separated and re-used. And that is not what most New-Agers mean when they talk about reincarnation. Apparently reality is a little more grim than New Agers believe There are ways to reincarnate the "united" person, however, described in Yoga of Power by Julius Evola, and in the Tibetan Book of Death (havent read it, but Evola says so). Once in a while, these ways are probably also discovered by accident by some recently deceased, so New Age-style reincarnation is not an impossibility for anyone with some willpower.
    Your comment about willpower being a key ingredient in this equation caught my attention. There are some schools of thought, typcially Left Hand Path, that hold the will to be the key to immortality itself. For example:

    Immortality

    Michael Kelly, IV°
    Grand Master (Emeritus) of the Order of Leviathan

    Immortality is an aspiration which is not unique by any means to the Order of Leviathan. It is alluded to in one form or another by almost all occult philosophies. Nor is the Order of Leviathan the only Temple of Set Order to deal with this question. What may be unique is the way in which we approach the question, both in terms of our openness to new ideas and general lack of dogma, but also the quality of those best possible answers we have so far surmised from our researchers.

    Firstly we have to consider what is it that may be immortal in us? It can't be our physical bodies, for they don't even last for the duration of our earthly lives; every cell in the body is replaced every few years. The body I have now is almost totally different from the one I had when I joined the Temple of Set. Granted, there is a continuity nonetheless, for the cells are not replaced all at once, but as a gradual change. Even so, there is no cure for ultimate physical death, and even if one was to be developed I wouldn't mind betting most people would not receive it or even be allowed to know of it.

    So immortality must be of the mind, if at all. Can the mind exist without the support system of the body? There is no proof that it can. The greatest evidence that it may be able to do so is through the practice of Magic to cause Change in the outside world. If Magic works - and I know it does, you must test this for yourself and not take my word for it - then here is evidence that the mind can act upon the world without having to employ the "middle man" of the body. Of course, this does not necessarily mean that it can survive outside of the body for any length of time, but it is a piece of evidence that points in the right direction. The other main evidence comes from the other type of Magic - that which causes Change within the Self. The Principles of Self-Creation and Isolate Intelligence which have been discovered by the Initiates of the Temple of Set strongly suggest that the awakened psyche must be able to survive physical death because it is a self-sufficient system. This again requires personal experimentation.

    So what is this mind that lives on? Based upon the above, we must rule out the ordinary personality and day to day concerns, for these are pure biology. Much of our mental activity is, when analysed, a pre-programmed product of the meat machine, comprising basic instinctual reactions and social conditioning. Many of our more inspired thoughts and feelings are also ultimately bound to immediate circumstance and lack eternal purpose.

    That which remains is true Self-consciousness. But this consciousness may not necessarily be awakened, so even now we may find nothing but vague dreams or dissipation. This is why Setians seek to seize and actualise moments of Xeper - of Coming Into Being - those times of power in our lives when the moment of Willed Change occurs and no barrier is insurmountable. By remembering these times of Xeper and reliving them, by taking conscious measures to create real and lasting change in consequence, we recognize the overall sequence of Willed events and begin to understand the unique "flavour" of our own Essence, apart from its workaday trappings. This is the process known as Remanifestation. Its ultimate goal is Self-divinity.

    The above is a very trimmed down description of an ongoing process of Initiation, but the point is this: by applying this knowledge instead of just theorising about it, the Initiate of Leviathan is able to draw close to his/her Essence now. Immortality is not some vague concept which happens after death, it is an ageless State of Being, and one that can be sought and experienced now. We know we are immortal, because we already have tasted immortality. The further intensification of that experience and catalysis of the process is a continuing Work of the Order, enacted on an individual level by the Quest for individual purpose, or the True Will as Aleister Crowley described it.

    Why is the Order of Leviathan in particular so focused upon this question? This has to do with the nature of Leviathan Itself, the ageless Principle of the Order, as described elsewhere on this site. source

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    Post Do you believe in Reincarnation?

    I believe in reincarnation. I also think I have a really old soul, I feel like I've experienced everything countless times even though I am quite young, it weighs on me very heavily sometimes. Though I do not believe that your actions in life effect your next life (there is no karma, only fate) and each life is just a repitition* -and to me that is why your attitude and how you live your life is important because you will have to do it again for eternity. Sometimes I think it gets cut short and you do not repeat every experience over again because of the choices you make in life...and maybe there are thousands of paths you can take yet each one you have already lived.

    *By repitition I do not think that it is exactly the same, like rewinding your life like a videotape and starting again, rather you live through the same experiences, the same feelings and relationships though maybe as another person in another time. I also think that you interact with the same souls of others as you do all through your reincarnations...but,for example, your bestfriend in one life might be your lover or someone else close to you in the next. And your dog might be a cat!
    Last edited by Moody; Monday, March 19th, 2007 at 04:00 PM. Reason: merged consecutive posts
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