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Thread: Ghosts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtcrime View Post
    No, I don't. I know it's going to sound awfully arrogant from someone who hasn't experienced any of these phenomena, but I personally believe your senses were playing tricks on you.

    I don't claim that spirits can't exist, but if they do, in my opinion there's no way they can alter the physical world.
    Yes, they probably are extra-dimensional. There are, after all, 11 dimensions aren't there? That's the only way to explain it, if you have to say they exist.

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    Senior Member thoughtcrime's Avatar
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    Yes, they probably are extra-dimensional. There are, after all, 11 dimensions aren't there? That's the only way to explain it, if you have to say they exist.
    *rolls eyes*
    Of course you're right. I didn't say they do, but there's a bunch of people who believe in extradimensional "matter" (or whatever it is). I don't, but I can't, not even empirically, disprove it. I can, however, empirically disprove that ghosts alter "our" world, since from the frequency people claim to experience them, there would have to be some hard proof of their influence.
    "Lever dot as slav."

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    Yes - I do believe!

    What is described sounds more like a "poltergeist" (coincidently, a nice Germanic folklore word commonly used in English and translated as "noisy spirit").

    Poltergeists move physical objects, and seem to interact with people.

    Strictly speaking, in paranormal studies "Ghosts" are figures who replay like imprints from the past. They follow a set path, and do not interact with people.

    Poltergeists are often (but not always) associated with adolescent girls, which suggests they may be caused by unconscious human "energy".

    Some hauntings are mixed, with ghosts being viewed, and poltergeist activity.

    Religious folk associate poltergeists with demonic activity, rather than haunting by human spirits.
    Because of their terrifying nature they are linked to occult activity (which is believed to open a doorway to malevolent spirits or demons) or being cursed.
    Especially the Ouija board is believed to attract them.

    Some rationalists do not deny the phenomenon, but they blame it on the mind being affected by electrical waves and frequencies (especially in the wiring of older houses).

    I don't think it is fair to say one is always ready to capture such activity on film, even in our techno world. I don't have a phone camera, and if something like that happened, I'd first have to scratch the camera out of the closet.
    Youtube and other sites are full of such footage, and the possibility of faking any footage today means that skeptics will never be completely satisfied with film, and they must experience it themselves.

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    Senior Member Friedrich's Avatar
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    The Enfield Poltergeist

    One of the most disputed hauntings occurred in northern London in the 1970's.
    The weight of evidence is in favor of the paranormal in this case, although some claim the girls had some kind of conspiracy with all the investigators.
    This is absurd, although some minor fakery did occur due to media pressure.
    The adult "girls" (two sisters, who were the focus of the haunting) are anonymous today, but maintain the truth of the haunting, and one claimed on Jane Goldman Investigates that it essentially ruined her youth.
    Scary and compelling evidence came from the 11-year-old sister Janet, who was recorded and witnessed speaking another voice.
    Skeptics must admit it came from her voice-box, but maintain a child faked this somehow.

    Enfield haunting


    You be the judge

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    Quote Originally Posted by boudicca View Post
    Do you believe in ghosts?
    Sure, I believe in ghosts, and I don't believe there is any contradiction between ghosts and Catholic theology. But I do believe that the dead are either in heaven, hell or purgatory. Some souls might be undergoing purgatorial purification and are permitted by God to appear to people in order to ask for prayers, for instance. On the other hand, demons are able to deceive people into thinking they are dead relatives, too. I've never seen a ghost, though, and the thought frightens me.
    Let us not desire delights, daughters; we are well-off here; the bad inn lasts for only a night.
    -St. Teresa of Avila

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    I'm still struggling with the notion of a "purgatory".
    Where and how did this thought originate? Any scriptures about that?

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    Ghosts do not exist.

    With all of the technology we have these days one would have almost certainly been recorded by now.

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    I'm opened minded. In a universe made of information and probability waves, at the basic quantum level of reality, I suppose there could be some memory residue still here from the dead.
    "This World We Cannot Tolerate,
    It's Time To Seal All Preachers Fate,
    And Hang Them All,
    From Odin's Tree!"
    Amon Amarth

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    Quote Originally Posted by SaxonPagan View Post
    Ghosts do not exist.

    With all of the technology we have these days one would have almost certainly been recorded by now.
    Ghosts exist. I've dealt with them.

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    There's always a possibility that they exist, but for the most part, no, I believe they do not exist.

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