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Thread: What Germanic Tribes Are the Modern Dutch Descended From?

  1. #31
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    I read something about very old names places and water (brooks and rivers) in Drenthe. Do these names be dated before the Germanic's arrival?
    Who can give me information?

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    Senior Member Sybren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagogoth View Post
    I read something about very old names places and water (brooks and rivers) in Drenthe. Do these names be dated before the Germanic's arrival?
    Who can give me information?
    Well, i know the 'Hunebedden' that are found there predate Germanic people. They are from the 'Trechterbeker cultuur' if i remember correctly.
    Bûter, brea en griene tsiis
    Wa't dat net sizze kin is gjin oprjochte Fries!

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    Senior Member Ingomar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagogoth View Post
    I read something about very old names places and water (brooks and rivers) in Drenthe. Do these names be dated before the Germanic's arrival?
    Who can give me information?
    From what I've read, a lot of place names around Drenthe are thought to be very, very old. They are so-called "eenstammig" (I don't know the English word at this moment, but I presume you can read Dutch), in contradiction to the Germanic "tweestammige" plaatsnamen. They mostly consist of two words combined, which is also mostly used in Germanic names for persons. Examples of these non-Germanic, but also non-Celtic, place names are Drogt, Een, Ees, Eext, Elp, Erm, Gees, Lhee, Loon, Norg, Nuil, Sleen, Vries.

    As far as I know, linguistics aren't sure what kind of language these place names must derive from primaly. So they also don't know how old they have to be. Though they know for sure it isn't Germanic or Celtic.

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    Aka GermanischerAdler Herefugol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingomar View Post
    For the Frisians it is more or less easier to verify their ancestors. This is because of the fact they are called Frisii during the Roman occupation, it is known that some of them migrated to East England and a part of them stayed in the same area during the Frankish (christian) early Medieval times.
    Frisii and Frisians are not the same people. The lands of the Frisii were abandoned in approximately the 5th century as a result of flooding caused by a marine transgression, with most inhabitants resettling in Flanders and Kent. Most of those who stayed likely perished in the poor conditions. The area essentially lay empty for the next century or so, until changing environmental conditions made the region habitable again. At that time, settlers - mostly Angles and Saxons - repopulated the region and became known as "Frisians".

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    Senior Member MaximusMagnus's Avatar
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    Batavii, Ubii, Marsci, sallians (Franks) Saxons and Frisoans all were in the Netherlands or lower Rhine area at one time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herefugol View Post
    Frisii and Frisians are not the same people. The lands of the Frisii were abandoned in approximately the 5th century as a result of flooding caused by a marine transgression, with most inhabitants resettling in Flanders and Kent. Most of those who stayed likely perished in the poor conditions. The area essentially lay empty for the next century or so, until changing environmental conditions made the region habitable again. At that time, settlers - mostly Angles and Saxons - repopulated the region and became known as "Frisians".
    I don’t think this is true.

    Halbertsma (2000), for instance, in his standard work Frieslands Oudheid (‘Frisia’s Antiquity’), says the archeological record shows continuous population in some of the terpen, the artifical mounds where people could sit out very high tides. So at least some of the original Frisians remained.

    Now, it is known that in the fifth century AD the old pottery style in Frisia largely made way for a new pottery style of eastern, Saxon origin. This, according to some, would indicate that Frisia was completely depopulated and then repopulated by Saxons. Yet it seems equally likely that this change in pottery style was due to pottery no longer being imported from Gallo-Roman areas and instead from the east. For we are mostly talking urns here, and these were luxury items at the time.

    Add to that that it is very unlikely that the ethnonym Frisians was wholly ‘taken over’ by newcomers. In fact, what is striking is that since the seventh century a much larger area than ever before was inhabited by people calling themselves Frisians.

    It seems more likely to me that Frisia was largely but not wholly depopulated for a century, and that it was mostly repopulated by Frisians returning to their old homeland and supplemented by mostly Saxon newcomers who were absorbed and assimilated by their Frisian hosts/neighbours, who were very much like them already.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diarmuid View Post
    What Germanic tribes are the modern Dutch descended from? I always thought they were mostly descended from the Franks and Frisians, but was there any Angle or Saxon input? There were also Celtic tribes which inhabited the modern day Netherlands in ancient times. Do you think they were wiped out or absorbed by their Germanic neighbors? There are supposed to be a large amount of continental Keltic-Nordids among Dutch speakers today.
    Dutch people are predominantly descended from the Germanic , but also Celtic people.
    The main Germanic tribes are the Franks from which the Dutch language came from, their genes are strongest in central and southern parts of the Netherlands.
    Frisians from which the Frisian language came from, were the first Germanic people to this country, at one time their empire covered a large of the Netherlands all the way to coastal northern Belgium. However Romans and other Germanics such as the Batavian branch of Frankish confederation reduced their kingdom. Frisians are now confined to the very northern provinces of Friesland and Groningen. As a matter of fact, Groningen is the blondest province in the Netherlands, in an old pigmentation study shows that as many as 83% had light hair (blond+dark blond+light brown+red shades) and approximately 80% light-eyed (blue+gray+green shades). So Frisians are on average lighter-haired and lighter-eyed than their southern Dutch counterparts. Saxons also had influence on eastern provinces of the Netherlands but they also blended with the Frisians. Saxons were not as blond as Frisians but just as light-eyed not less.

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