Page 1 of 7 123456 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 61

Thread: Autism in Schools

  1. #1
    Senior Member feisty goddess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Online
    Thursday, August 23rd, 2012 @ 06:22 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Ancestry
    European-American, mostly Germanic
    Subrace
    Reduced Borreby
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Age
    27
    Family
    single adult
    Occupation
    College student
    Politics
    Capitalist
    Religion
    Agnostic
    Posts
    1,314
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Autism in Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by AcherontiaStyx View Post
    Not to mention Autistic Savants... There are varying degrees of Autism and high-functioning autism with exceptional abilities is an amazing byproduct of brain development/evolution

    -

    I don't understand people's prejudice against the mentally/neurologically ill. Beethoven, Schumann, and many others were Bipolar. Some of the greatest artist the world has ever known were Schizophrenic. Not to mention the writers...

    There, something else that pisses me off. Prejudice against the mentally ill.
    I don't have a prejudice, just don't think its logical to put them in a class with regular children and let them be disruptive. Autism is different than disorders like bipolar and schizophrenia. Autism is a major learning and social defect with somewhat unknown causes and Bipolar disorder is a personality/chemical problem.

  2. #2
    Senior Member feisty goddess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Online
    Thursday, August 23rd, 2012 @ 06:22 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Ancestry
    European-American, mostly Germanic
    Subrace
    Reduced Borreby
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Age
    27
    Family
    single adult
    Occupation
    College student
    Politics
    Capitalist
    Religion
    Agnostic
    Posts
    1,314
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Then they had proper full-fledged autism? Though even then it isn't surprising if they're still exceptionally gifted in one or two fields (see the movie Rainman, refer to "insular giftedness" and "Autistic savants") but otherwise imbeciles elsewhere.

    In that case, they shouldn't be in the gifted kids class, but if anything receive separate tuition as it'll be obvious that whilst they'll be ahead in one subject or two, they'll be behind in the rest.

    Glad to see you don't include the entire "autism spectrum" though, however, as it's about as broad a spectrum as "female ailments" and thus says very little in itself, the categorisation is some 70-80 years old; for high-functioning autism and Asperger's the categorisation is indeed curious, especially with the latter, you simply don't notice in adults unless you know them really well.
    Well anything besides full fledged autism and severe or moderate aspergers is different from someone with a mild learning disorder, really. I have nothing against someone with a learning disability who is like a normal person; they thought I might be dyslexic when I was a baby because I was ambidextrous and didn't talk but I was one of the first children in the class to read and write.

  3. #3
    Moderator "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Sigurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    Friday, August 16th, 2019 @ 06:42 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Bavarii, Saxones, Suebi, Alamanni
    Subrace
    Borreby + Atlantonordoid
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Location
    Einöde in den Alpen
    Gender
    Age
    31
    Zodiac Sign
    Libra
    Family
    Engaged
    Politics
    Tradition & Homeland
    Religion
    Odinist
    Posts
    9,080
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    50
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    186
    Thanked in
    107 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by feisty goddess View Post
    I don't have a prejudice, just don't think its logical to put them in a class with regular children and let them be disruptive.
    Not to play devil's advocate, but do define what a "regular child" is. I don't think people of different intellectual abilities in subjects should be in the same class either, but I take exception to typing your average kid as "regular"/"normal" whilst those who deviate upwards or downwards are somehow treated as "irregular"/"abnormal".

    The whole thing is why I think alternative schooling, where a child can learn at its own speed in subjects (like I was able to enjoy, due to small school size) depending on their ability in that subject, is a good idea; additionally one of the reasons why I believe a few families teaming up for a home-schooling project is a good thing (the other, evident one, is the indoctrination problem).

    The key word IMO is however class-size: The teacher/student ratio is ridiculous, it should be closer to 1:10 rather than 1:30 - in short we need more teachers instead of every second teacher being made redundant on a regular basis. Smaller class sizes allow the teacher to pay attention to each child's needs more closely, and actually cuts down on disruptiveness generally as the teacher has more authority about the situation (then teaching a class, not a mob).

    The whole regular/abnormal terminology, to reiterate, is something I take exception to. It was the mindset that anything that deviates from the norm is bad that made the first few years of schooling the living hell for me: Being the clever kid in class was not a blessing, it was a curse, and the teachers hated you for "being a smart-ass".
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  4. #4
    Senior Member Schwanengesang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Online
    Tuesday, December 27th, 2011 @ 08:18 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Norway
    Subrace
    Norid
    Country
    German Fraternity German Fraternity
    Location
    The far, far north
    Gender
    Age
    33
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Medical Student/Tutor/Pianist
    Politics
    Libertarian
    Posts
    130
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by feisty goddess View Post
    I don't have a prejudice, just don't think its logical to put them in a class with regular children and let them be disruptive. Autism is different than disorders like bipolar and schizophrenia. Autism is a learning defect with somewhat unknown causes and Bipolar disorder is a personality/chemical problem.
    I was not talking about you, at all.

    Wrong.

    Bipolar disorder is genetically inherited, and a chemical imbalance; so is Schizophrenia it is not a personality disorder like Borderline or Avoidant. (even though there are "schizotypal" personality disorders, such as Schizoaffective)

    Autism is still considered a Neurological disorder with or without injury to the brain. Most of the cases have no associated injuries. We've had enormous advancements in the field of Neurobiology regarding Autism, and we're making strong ties with a Genetic component. It is not a "learning defect"; sometimes it is not even accompanied by learning impairment/difficulty.

    There have been studies that prove that those children are benefited if they remain in regular classes with regular children sometimes; it aids them in socialization and life skills. They aren't "born" with those skills and are unable to learn them the way normal children do.

    And I reckon if they're in the advanced classes, they must have one or two exceptional abilities. Otherwise they would be integrated with the normal school kids and/or put in special ed.

    They do have outbursts sometimes, but no different from other children/teenagers. They lack the ability to control ~some~ emotional stimulus, but that's okay. If they're in a normal class with a responsible/knowledgeable professor then the professor should help them and teach them the appropriate social behavior. That's my take on it, at least.

    However if any student is being violent, autistic or not, they should be dealt with and taken out of the classroom.

    νυνι δε μενει πιστις ελπις αγαπη τα τρια ταυτα μειζων δε τουτων η αγαπη

  5. #5
    Senior Member feisty goddess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Online
    Thursday, August 23rd, 2012 @ 06:22 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Ancestry
    European-American, mostly Germanic
    Subrace
    Reduced Borreby
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Age
    27
    Family
    single adult
    Occupation
    College student
    Politics
    Capitalist
    Religion
    Agnostic
    Posts
    1,314
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    Not to play devil's advocate, but do define what a "regular child" is. I don't think people of different intellectual abilities in subjects should be in the same class either, but I take exception to typing your average kid as "regular"/"normal" whilst those who deviate upwards or downwards are somehow treated as "irregular"/"abnormal".

    The whole thing is why I think alternative schooling, where a child can learn at its own speed in subjects (like I was able to enjoy, due to small school size) depending on their ability in that subject, is a good idea; additionally one of the reasons why I believe a few families teaming up for a home-schooling project is a good thing (the other, evident one, is the indoctrination problem).

    The key word IMO is however class-size: The teacher/student ratio is ridiculous, it should be closer to 1:10 rather than 1:30 - in short we need more teachers instead of every second teacher being made redundant on a regular basis. Smaller class sizes allow the teacher to pay attention to each child's needs more closely, and actually cuts down on disruptiveness generally as the teacher has more authority about the situation (then teaching a class, not a mob).

    The whole regular/abnormal terminology, to reiterate, is something I take exception to. It was the mindset that anything that deviates from the norm is bad that made the first few years of schooling the living hell for me: Being the clever kid in class was not a blessing, it was a curse, and the teachers hated you for "being a smart-ass".
    Believe me I don't think everything that deviates from the norm is bad, I'm only applying that to children who are physically able to learn normally and with someone with autism it is not a discipline problem so you shouldn't expect them to measure up. I am NOT perfectly normal but I am not defective in any way. I also have a problem with overzealous doctors who like to diagnose and medicate "hyperactivity" when there never is a problem. Society wants there to be an acceptance of these things like "everybody has it" so that people will feel good about medicating their children.

    My goal as a eugenacist is to make sure I am not breeding with someone who exibits ADHD, bipolar, or any other major chemical imbalance or genetic mental disorder. Mild depression or something caused by their environment that doesn't affect them much isn't as big of a deal. I see people all the time with ADD and such and it really affects their intelligence and mental ability; I do not want to have to deal with children like that, the best thing I can do is keep my long attention span recessive. It is my duty to keep my family clean, functional, and traditional with children who do not have terrible disorders that limit their function in a normal society. There are a lot of people with poor eugenics out there and it is really easy to be careless and destroy your gene pool.

  6. #6
    Senior Member feisty goddess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Last Online
    Thursday, August 23rd, 2012 @ 06:22 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Ancestry
    European-American, mostly Germanic
    Subrace
    Reduced Borreby
    Country
    United States United States
    Gender
    Age
    27
    Family
    single adult
    Occupation
    College student
    Politics
    Capitalist
    Religion
    Agnostic
    Posts
    1,314
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AcherontiaStyx View Post
    I was not talking about you, at all.

    Wrong.

    Bipolar disorder is genetically inherited, and a chemical imbalance; so is Schizophrenia it is not a personality disorder like Borderline or Avoidant. (even though there are "schizotypal" personality disorders, such as Schizoaffective)

    Autism is still considered a Neurological disorder with or without injury to the brain. Most of the cases have no associated injuries. We've had enormous advancements in the field of Neurobiology regarding Autism, and we're making strong ties with a Genetic component. It is not a "learning defect"; sometimes it is not even accompanied by learning impairment/difficulty.

    There have been studies that prove that those children are benefited if they remain in regular classes with regular children sometimes; it aids them in socialization and life skills. They aren't "born" with those skills and are unable to learn them the way normal children do.

    And I reckon if they're in the advanced classes, they must have one or two exceptional abilities. Otherwise they would be integrated with the normal school kids and/or put in special ed.

    They do have outbursts sometimes, but no different from other children/teenagers. They lack the ability to control ~some~ emotional stimulus, but that's okay. If they're in a normal class with a responsible/knowledgeable professor then the professor should help them and teach them the appropriate social behavior. That's my take on it, at least.

    However if any student is being violent, autistic or not, they should be dealt with and taken out of the classroom.
    I didn't think you were talking about me and what you said about personality disorders is what I meant to say.

    I'm not sure I believe autism has much of a genetic component, its often been associated with vaccinations and mothers having toxins in their bodies when they are pregnant. But then again I wouldn't be suprised if there was a strong genetic link.

    What you are saying about autistic children not being different from other children is false. They take a ton of time out of class when they sing repetitive songs, don't respond to commands, and avoid the main point. I have never heard of an autistic person becoming violent, they merely get angry but don't seem to have the ability to act on it in that way. Autistic people can't be taught the right social behavior, not unless the parents are very rich and can afford top notch care.

  7. #7
    Moderator "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Sigurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    Friday, August 16th, 2019 @ 06:42 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Bavarii, Saxones, Suebi, Alamanni
    Subrace
    Borreby + Atlantonordoid
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Location
    Einöde in den Alpen
    Gender
    Age
    31
    Zodiac Sign
    Libra
    Family
    Engaged
    Politics
    Tradition & Homeland
    Religion
    Odinist
    Posts
    9,080
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    50
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    186
    Thanked in
    107 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by feisty goddess View Post
    Believe me I don't think everything that deviates from the norm is bad, I'm only applying that to children who are physically able to learn normally and with someone with autism it is not a discipline problem so you shouldn't expect them to measure up.
    It can become a discipline problem with both full-fledged autism and an autism spectrum disorder if it is made to be, a general problem with it is, again, class size. This is especially true with the autism spectrum disorders --- go through any school or medical report of a kid inflicted with let's say Asperger's and it'll commonly read something like the following:

    "Johnny is a very special child in many ways with intellectual abilities that by far transcend those of his peers, with an intricate understanding of the materials dealt with, increased interest in detailed questions, and prone to correct factual errors made by his teachers. However, there are frequently situations when he is unable to react appropriately to stress situations in a setting with an increased number of people involved."

    Being very well acquainted with Asperger's (and thus the reason I bring it up as an example all the time), I also know that it's often not a general discipline issue, as they feel remorse over doing bad and often indeed demand of their teachers, parents, and other figures of authority not to go easy on them and oft demand strict rules be applied to them, as it has been observed that they have an increased sense of justice (which tends to get them into such sorry situations oft in the first place, finding it difficult to realise that life is simply, well, unjust).

    Oftentimes, and this was an observation I have made, a smaller class size where difficulties and weaknesses are supported but strengths and abilities are challenged and encouraged is beneficial to their development; since we're still talking about the same spectrum, I would not be surprised that this is also true of others on the spectrum, or indeed when suffering from full-fledged autism.

    That being said, I generally believe smaller class sizes are the better route: Also for under-achievers (whether by being too dim for the class, or indeed too intelligent for the class), dyslexics (who are often also intelligent), ADHD, people from difficult familiar backgrounds, and even the average student (who is oft overlooked for neither being noticed in the positive nor negative). Smaller class sizes also help with social cohesion between the group, making it less likely a child is excluded categorically from the fold, cutting down on bullying.

    How do I know? Because I myself eventually went to a small boarding school with small class sizes (teacher:student ratio 1:5), relatively individual learning speeds and a strong extracurricular program that made sure no one was pristinely excluded for their abilities, needs or other special circumstances, if they were excluded from the social life between students it was usually for other antics (like not washing, being a compulsive liar, or such things). It was a place where, for instance, the brilliant but dyslexic student was as much part of it all and not derided for his defective spelling nor bullied for his thirst of knowledge.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Schwanengesang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Online
    Tuesday, December 27th, 2011 @ 08:18 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Norway
    Subrace
    Norid
    Country
    German Fraternity German Fraternity
    Location
    The far, far north
    Gender
    Age
    33
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Medical Student/Tutor/Pianist
    Politics
    Libertarian
    Posts
    130
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by feisty goddess View Post
    My goal as a eugenacist is to make sure I am not breeding with someone who exibits ADHD, bipolar, or any other major chemical imbalance or genetic mental disorder. Mild depression or something caused by their environment that doesn't affect them much isn't as big of a deal. I see people all the time with ADD and such and it really affects their intelligence and mental ability; I do not want to have to deal with children like that, the best thing I can do is keep my long attention span recessive. It is my duty to keep my family clean, functional, and traditional with children who do not have terrible disorders that limit their function in a normal society. There are a lot of people with poor eugenics out there and it is really easy to be careless and destroy your gene pool.
    You can't be sure. You don't even know it you carry a trait or recessive gene or mutation for the disorders you want to avoid so badly. You cannot test for those yet because it's multi-gene. ALL of these conditions are.

    Depression is NOT environmental. Not even mild depression. If you mean "the blues", then that's not considered depression. Any manifestation of depressive characteristics in an individual is due to chemical imbalances and everyone can suffer from that, with or without the genetic component.

    And those children can function normally; as a matter of fact, most inventors and geniuses Humanity has spawn were affected by very serious mental conditions and neurological disorders.

    There's no way to protect a "gene pool" (you meant our children's karyotype I assume) that does not exist yet. You can even get married to someone who's had a genetic test and carries no variant of a trait for serious medical conditions and no KNOWN markers for borderline, and end up with children affected with Borderline and/or Bipolar Disorder.

    νυνι δε μενει πιστις ελπις αγαπη τα τρια ταυτα μειζων δε τουτων η αγαπη

  9. #9
    Senior Member Schwanengesang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Online
    Tuesday, December 27th, 2011 @ 08:18 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Norway
    Subrace
    Norid
    Country
    German Fraternity German Fraternity
    Location
    The far, far north
    Gender
    Age
    33
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Medical Student/Tutor/Pianist
    Politics
    Libertarian
    Posts
    130
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Okay, let's...go slowly this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by feisty goddess View Post
    I'm not sure I believe autism has much of a genetic component, its often been associated with vaccinations and mothers having toxins in their bodies when they are pregnant. But then again I wouldn't be suprised if there was a strong genetic link.
    There has been no link to vaccinations other than hysterical mothers. I am dead serious; this is not even considered in the Medical field anymore. Old news.
    Mothers with toxins...would you elaborate on that? If you mean drug users than those are most likely to give birth to children with a myriad of neurological conditions, not only autism.

    Here are some studies for you to read on, if you're interested:

    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15121991

    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3048227

    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18302128

    www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2350/10/102 (This one is very good)



    Quote Originally Posted by feisty goddess View Post
    What you are saying about autistic children not being different from other children is false. They take a ton of time out of class when they sing repetitive songs, don't respond to commands, and avoid the main point. I have never heard of an autistic person becoming violent, they merely get angry but don't seem to have the ability to act on it in that way. Autistic people can't be taught the right social behavior, not unless the parents are very rich and can afford top notch care.
    I didn't mean to say that they're "normal" in the sense of "social normality", but in the sense of intellectual promise. (some, not all)
    I have not personally dealt with any violent Autistic person but I have a colleague that has. It's pretty hard because when the person is deeply autistic they do not understand violence and borders.

    They can be taught, even though they will never be fully socially integrated. That is not a bad thing, in my eyes, as long as they're productive members as many of them have proved to be. Oftentimes the most prodigious Musicians and Scientists do have neurological disorders and may/may not have autistic traits/spectrum.

    And you're right about the parents part. That's why I don't believe in the Public Education System. If you cannot afford to handle your child's special needs, then: 1) don't have children in the first place or 2) go for the adoption route. You can always choose the parents who are going to take care of your child, and make sure they'll address their special needs with care and love.

    νυνι δε μενει πιστις ελπις αγαπη τα τρια ταυτα μειζων δε τουτων η αγαπη

  10. #10
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Melisande's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Online
    Monday, July 25th, 2011 @ 05:36 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Franco-American
    Ancestry
    Frankish, Langobard, Scots, Norman, Goth, Bretagne, Bavarian, English.
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    California California
    Location
    Malibu
    Gender
    Family
    Happily married
    Politics
    Meritocracy
    Religion
    Unusual
    Posts
    291
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Da Vinci was not autistic. Ever read his work? He was certainly NOT autistic -Asperger's or otherwise.

    And yes, the Asperger's kids can be disruptive. So are the Anxiety Disorder People. And the Paranoid Personality people and the OCD people and the Bipolars - which are all in the classroom (and who get priority registration in California colleges).

    Sigh.
    Always recognize that human individuals are ends, and do not use them as means to your end.
    ~~Immanuel Kant~~

Page 1 of 7 123456 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: Saturday, October 8th, 2016, 12:37 PM
  2. Autism Quotient Test
    By Evolved in forum Psychology, Behavior, & Neuroscience
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: Sunday, October 16th, 2011, 05:21 PM
  3. Autism/Aspergers Disorder
    By Brynhild in forum Psychology, Behavior, & Neuroscience
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: Sunday, August 22nd, 2010, 04:51 AM
  4. Take The Autism-Spectrum Quotient Test
    By Frans_Jozef in forum Psychology, Behavior, & Neuroscience
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: Monday, August 23rd, 2004, 04:57 PM
  5. Project to search for autism gene
    By Johannes de León in forum Medical & Behavioral Genetics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Tuesday, July 20th, 2004, 05:03 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •