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Thread: What Role Does/Should Religion Play in Lives of Modern Human Beings?

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    I am glad that I was raised a Mormon because of the strong ethics and morals that were imposed on me as a child. Mormons do not believe in pre marital sex, promiscuity, porn, or swearing ^^ I believe that is a major factor as to why I have such high morals and values now. I learned how to respect people, and even better, my Grandparents and family hate immigrants and are fairly racist. I did not fear going to hell if I opposed the rules, I just feared my Grandparents' wraith I believe that good Heathen/ non religious parents can teach their children just as well; unfortunately, fundamentalists have done a good job brainwashing the world This includes, religion as well as media.
    All things must come to the soul from it's roots, from where it is planted. The that is beside the running water is fresher, and gives more fruit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    It depends on what you're looking for, ... it's difficult for a particularist religion to lay claim to the full truth, but I guess that's not your objective when proposing to revive/create a tribal religion in modern times.
    But how could a Semitic cult lay claim to the full truth?

    It cannot, and this is the point. The Semitic religion is no more true than any other particularist religion, just that it makes the whole thing for us even more wrong, probably entirely wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    Neither is a particularist religion going to ward off foreign lifestyles (or foreign genes, for that matter) and technology per definition, again the Roman empire is the best example of this fact. The provinces of the Roman empire usually had no qualms about imitating their rulers as much as possible.
    This probably is true, the ethnic awareness is something that religion yet have to learn.

    There is just no meaningful way to do this under the premise of a Semitic god for a non-Semitic people. It makes the whole point of religion (refer to Hamar Fox) completely void.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    Theoretically speaking that could be true, but this point you make is historically flawed, I would say. For instance, the split between Orthodox and Western Christianity is a cultural-ethnic affair. Arabs will turn to the Church(es) of the East, and not directly to Rome or Moscow. There are exceptions, like the Poles or the Hungarians, but they are exceptions - and curiously enough they're amongst the most ethnically aware peoples of Europe.
    If they had been brainwashed for the multikult for 65 years like we are, they would not be ethnically aware either. In contrast to us, they have been empowered and encouraged though to be proud.

    And serious, where the Poles are an identifiable folk, the Hungarians are not, on what do they base their ethnic awareness? They base it on the meaningless notion in their passport that they are Hungarians. But what are Hungarians? They are / once were an Ugric people, one that probably doesnt exist anymore in pure form, Magyars are a Turkic / Asian people, Hungary has been long part of the Austrian empire, and from there got considerable amounts of European blood, and a lot of Slavic people in their proximity too. The Hungarians are so much ethnically diverse as its possibly gets, it's a bit funny to assume that they could be "ethnically" (as opposed to citizenship) aware.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    And let's not forget that there exists no Western nation(-state) without there being a strong Christian foundation or justification for it.
    This doesnt make worshipping a Semitic god more right.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    IMO, the immigration policy of a nation is what matters most for preserving its ethnic homogenity, it's a sociopolitical choice, not a religious one - and everything else serves as an interesting afterthought.
    The problem is that christianity is no little factor for why a decision for ethnic homogenity doesnt come about. So it is "religion" that decides over socio-political matters of the folk, a religion that doesnt even represent the majority of people. But it continues to dictate its Semitic values, its Semitic utopias, its misguided helper-syndrome, indeed its Münchhausen-syndrome on all others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    But how could a Semitic cult lay claim to the full truth?
    Purely by its merits and (universalist) claims. Christianity started out as a Semitic cult but didn't stay that way for very long.

    God certainly isn't semitic. Nor is monotheism reserved for Jews only.

    And I'm a christian believer, of course, hence the body of a Jewish man God used as a vessel to communicate with mankind is not all that important to me. The resurrection matters.

    There is just no meaningful way to do this under the premise of a Semitic god for a non-Semitic people. It makes the whole point of religion (refer to Hamar Fox) completely void.
    This doesnt make worshipping a Semitic god more right.
    God isn't semitic.

    And serious, where the Poles are an identifiable folk, the Hungarians are not, on what do they base their ethnic awareness? They base it on the meaningless notion in their passport that they are Hungarians. But what are Hungarians? They are / once were an Ugric people, one that probably doesnt exist anymore in pure form, Magyars are a Turkic / Asian people, Hungary has been long part of the Austrian empire, and from there got considerable amounts of European blood, and a lot of Slavic people in their proximity too. The Hungarians are so much ethnically diverse as its possibly gets, it's a bit funny to assume that they could be "ethnically" (as opposed to citizenship) aware.
    That may be true, they might be a heavily mixed nation, but as of today they're the most nationalistic nation in Europe, and there new constitution mentions christianity as being the religion of Hungary. They seem to be quite comfortable with their identity, whether they're mixed or not.

    The problem is that christianity is no little factor for why a decision for ethnic homogenity doesnt come about. So it is "religion" that decides over socio-political matters of the folk, a religion that doesnt even represent the majority of people.
    Well, I have to disagree with you there, I don't think it's a factor at all. As you point out, christian religions don't represent the majority of people in West and Central Europe. The dechristianization process is connected to major historical events like both world wars, and the rise of marxism/materialism/urbanization/scientific theory/atheism/humanism ... the traditional opponents of christianity, and the first three of these influences I just mentioned are also the deathknell of an ethnic consciousness.

    But it continues to dictate its Semitic values, its Semitic utopias, its misguided helper-syndrome, indeed its Münchhausen-syndrome on all others.
    Only a handful of people care for these "dictates" ... the christian message is mostly met by opposition, hence it is impossible for christians to be a major factor in shaping the politics of the nation.

    And what is a semitic utopia? It must be Israël, the only 'national-socialist' state on this planet. Or the USSR. In any event, a semitic utopia can't be the same thing as a christian utopia.
    “As brothers and sisters we knew instinctively that if we were going to stand in darkness, best we stand in a darkness we had made ourselves.” - Douglas Coupland

  4. #14
    First we must ask, what role did religion play in days of old?
    Boiled down, it comes to that which we don't know, and I can assure you we'll never know everything. Primordial religions offered reverence for the forces at work on Earth, later on in organized societies it served nobles and ecclesiastics while the true mystics are the outcasts (Jesus, Buddha, Zoroaster, etc) those who truly want to learn about life: morals, reality, God consciousness, meditation, asceticism, austerities that lead to a more enlightened awareness, not merely appeasing the God but to realize them in their most awesome transcendent form, leaving behind material existence.

    It's simply that, religion does not play a part in Modern life (note Modern is capitalized to denote the age in which we live) because we don't love or even know God for that matter, not even most "religious" people do, no selfless service to a higher principle and order of being. A virtue that few modern Western men possess. We see this principle being exercised by Hezbollah and other Jihadist orders, one of the only religious peoples in the world. Medieval European Christendom is a perfect example of a true Platonic noocracy. Rule by the wise is only possible in a theocratic State. Enter the Enlightenment and the takeover by individual rights and supposed "Liberty" over hierarchy & meritocracy and you have what we have today: chaos.
    Like the blind leading the blind.

    Imagine if we still had the Knights Templar like Muslims have Al-Quaeda and Mujihadeen?
    Nay we fight "secularly" for Israel's security against these barbarians
    Berserker=Crusade=Jihad=Kampf, same principle, different school of thought.

    It comes to this: What use does society have for God & Religion if it's goals and ambitions are sitting in the gutter and not in Heaven? In other words, as the Upanishads tell "There is no joy in the finite, joy comes only from the infinite"
    Virtue is replaced by vice, love by lust, hospitality by greed, loyalty by self-service, you get the picture.

    Religion serves as a refuge for those of us who recognize "What is best in life" and leave the plebians to their own undoing.

    The divine hierarchy has been reversed.
    God>King>Knight>Nobleman>Freeman>Serf
    Top down hierarchy works because each tier is a reflection of the inherent qualities of the one above it. Such a system is only logical if the Absolute is the supreme ideal that serves as the fundament upon which all lower orders are built
    Thus Ragnarok will cleanse us of misdirection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar View Post
    First we must ask, what role did religion play in days of old?
    In the history and myths of religion, one might deduce:

    1. That religion in the days of old was nothing but the reverence of Nature and observance of the eternal and immutable laws which governed all life and all organization.

    2. That this law was self evident to every man and could be observed without regard to Nation or race, place or time, rite or temple.

    3. That those leaders which observed this primordial religion were wise and just and those that did not were cruel, ignorant and deceitful.

    4. That those individuals which kept this law led a purposeful, productive and happy existence where those which did not were frivolous and miserable.

    5. That those Nations and Races which observed it were considered virtuous and prosperous, and welcomed poverty and destitution upon themselves only when they ceased observing it.

    6. That at some point men created cartels and political unions with the express intent of withholding this ancient truth from the many for the select benefit of the few.

    7. That the result of this was the root religion from which all modern religions have branched which has likewise been the source of every social ill and all of mans suffering.

    8. That these branch religions have no certainty upon which they can agree upon and so are objectively the opinions of particular men feeding the superstitions of knaves.

    9. That the great strength of these religions is their inherit nature of man to believe blindly in the superiority of tradition.

    and 10. Because these modern religions all have at their foundation, deception and fraud that they are merely the means by which the wealth and riches of the world were amassed for the few for the sole purpose of rendering the many powerless and controllable.

    We see this principle being exercised by Hezbollah and other Jihadist orders, one of the only religious peoples in the world.
    And therefore one of the most ignorant, backwards and superstitious...

    Medieval European Christendom is a perfect example of a true Platonic noocracy. Rule by the wise is only possible in a theocratic State.
    True, because the "wise" know that the educated masses will see through their false hierarchy, and it is necessary to keep them dumb and blind with scarecrows and boogymen.

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    Christianity is purely universalist in being all encompassing in accepting whatever ethnicity it can lay claim to by it's hand that there is a reason why Christian racial cultural identity is considered a minority fringe and why those in authority within the religion reject such notions largely.......

    Univeralist Christianity is just one of the several reasons why we find our nations in the predictament that they are in especially by the proselytizing weak faithful who find this one world global multicultural cesspool the new global utopian kingdom of 'God'.

    One only needs to talk to the devoted Christian Zionists to see their insistent worship of world Jewry.

    Even as a atheist I wished the pagans would of been more smarter and stronger in taking Europe by storm where the fact that they didn't or weren't able to I believe was a great historical tragedy. I could atleast tolerate Germanic pagan idolaters as a nationalistic atheist in comparison to weak submissive pious multicultural Christian puritans.

    What else did we get with Christianity? The idolization of virginity and sexual abstinence followed by chastity along with the villification of sex itself in women......

    Not only are we screwed with Christianity culturally or racially but we are also screwed for the lack of screwing....
    National Socialism is the only salvation for Germanics and Europids everywhere. Capitalism, libertarianism, and communism is the enemy.

    National socialized collectivism must prevail over radical individualism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    Purely by its merits and (universalist) claims. Christianity started out as a Semitic cult but didn't stay that way for very long.
    It still is entirely Semitic. The "West" to this day is called "the judeo-christian occident".

    It cannot be "true" for us. Luther made a slight (and failed) attempt at Germanising the Semitic desert cult, but its only "success" is that your Jewish scriptures are now available in your native language and not limited to the Latin vulgata anymore; a version of the scriptures that was already back then a heavily twisted translation to appeal to the lowclass scum of the Eastern (Semitic through and through) parts of the Roman empire, while establishing a power structure to control the masses (including the former ruling classes).

    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    God certainly isn't semitic. Nor is monotheism reserved for Jews only.
    But your cult is. And it never changed its Semitic nature.

    It wasnt adopted and transformed into our culture, it was imposed on us and it destroyed a lot of our culture. Christianity came here through cultural imperialism, and for long centuries it was ever new missionaries that came from Rome, who imposed their language on the locals, their customs, their power structures, their double-morals.

    Rome even beated down the Celtic church, who adopted christianity volunatary and incorporated it into their Druids cultus, though not from Rome, but from the east directly. Rome couldnt deal with not having absolute power, and they waged war against the Celts.

    When you dont object to christian cultural imperialism, which was (and still is) an alien cult with alien scripture, how can you seriously object to the islamic cultural imperialism? It is no more alien than christianity, and who knows what great developments we will make under Islamic rule? And just imagine its unifying character that will bring peace to all the world, and where Allah will love all its children, regardless of their race. Just submit to Allah and you will be free.

    Yes, it's sarcasm, but its exactly the same nonsense when christians claim christianity had unified Europe (it didnt, christian sect fought christian sect all along), brought enlightenment of a semitic desert demon pretending to be god for the prize of our culture etc.

    You know every little f**kn detail of the genealogy of mystical figures from Semitic people. But again, what does it have to do with us, with our nations, with our ancient history, with our folk heroes? It all was eradicated through the cultural imperialism.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    And I'm a christian believer, of course, hence the body of a Jewish man God used as a vessel to communicate with mankind is not all that important to me. The resurrection matters.
    Jesus did not die for the guilts of mankind, but for its own guilt only.

    Claim it all you want, it doesnt become more true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    God isn't semitic.
    YAHWE is Semitic, and YAHWE is your god, and Jesus is claimed (without any proof for this claim) to be YAHWE's son. Your god is as Semitic as it possibly gets.

    Your scriptures are Semitic, you adopted the Semitic interpretation of "god", your "savior" is Semitic, your "morals" (as far as they stem from the scriptures) are Semitic.

    Nothing of this has anything to do with us a people.

    It is interesting that you cannot see the contradiction, while you agree that our blood, our race is the precondition for our greatness.

    The semitic bible does not reflect us a people, and it is a factor that hindered our development to the next level of civilisation for 1500 years. When the semitic cult came, we were only on our way to become a great civilisation, and christianity catapulted us directly into the state of a dying civilisation, without that we would have reached our potential inbetween.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    That may be true, they might be a heavily mixed nation, but as of today they're the most nationalistic nation in Europe, and there new constitution mentions christianity as being the religion of Hungary. They seem to be quite comfortable with their identity, whether they're mixed or not.
    But of what worth is this "identity"?

    It is not nationhood, it is only citizenship.

    Btw, all constitutions throughout Europe from after 1848 define a state's religion. In the Scandinavian countries new born children automatically become members of that church; yet, all Scandinavian countries have less than 5 percent practicing christians. It is a completely irrelevant notion and says nothing about the country or their christianness.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    Well, I have to disagree with you there, I don't think it's a factor at all. As you point out, christian religions don't represent the majority of people in West and Central Europe.
    Germany is governed by a Christian-Democrats, it is the party that governed Germany for the most part since the end of WWII; they talk all the time about their precious "judeo-christian occident".

    Yet, it is these same Christian-Democrats who enforced against strong opposition from all corners, politically as well as socially, the guest-worker programme, it is the Christian-Democrats who introduce Islam studies on several major German universities, and it is the Christian-Democrats who first established Sharia courts in Bavaria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    The dechristianization process is connected to major historical events like both world wars, and the rise of marxism/materialism/urbanization/scientific theory/atheism/humanism ... the traditional opponents of christianity, and the first three of these influences I just mentioned are also the deathknell of an ethnic consciousness.
    And Christianity entirely failed to stem these tides. In fact, although I know you will deny this, Marxism is heavily christian influenced, it basically is the next level of (philosophical) christianity, just stripped of the god-figure.

    Same for humanism, it is the consequent application of the dictate of the "brotherhood of all people".

    Urbanization is a process pushed by christianity in the first place; whereever a cathedral was build, a city came about.

    Science is older than christianity, and all christianity did was trying to halt the process of development.

    The catholic church is itself a driving force of materialism, and they arent the richest organisation of the world because they so effectively reject materialism; quite the opposite, they even invented methods to gather all material wealth from the people: pay a fine and a letter of indulgence releases you from all your sins.

    This is really the epitome of materialism, and certainly a move of the catholic church that raised materialism on the next level.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    Only a handful of people care for these "dictates" ... the christian message is mostly met by opposition, hence it is impossible for christians to be a major factor in shaping the politics of the nation.
    Yet they are. Christianity is present everywhere, in laws, in politics, in the think tanks and councils, in "ethic commissions", everywhere.

    In contrast to atheists f.e., or marxists, or whatever else. None of these "opposing views" groups have significant influence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech
    And what is a semitic utopia? It must be Israël, the only 'national-socialist' state on this planet. Or the USSR. In any event, a semitic utopia can't be the same thing as a christian utopia.
    A christian utopia is no more desireable than a Semitic one.

    We are Germanics, and we should eventually become Germanic again. If we fail, Germanics will cease to exist within the next 50-100 years (if we arent forcefully wiped off the face of the earth before that and "only" demographics take their turn).

    Oh, and the christian message of "all humans being equal" will be a cornerstone in this development, and of the lack of resistance against this.

    It is the christian groups who rally for tolerance, it is the christians who work the most for the friendship to Israel, it is the christian groups that rally against the memorial of the killed civilians in Dresden and elsewhere, and it was christians who in the 17th/18th pushed for acceptance of and tolerance for Jews, it was christians who granted religious freedom especially to Jews and granted them to build synagoges, and surprise, it is christians who grant Muslims today to build mosques or give them their churches right away.

    No, Chlod, this isnt a new thing, this isnt a post WWII thing, it is the christian obligation to accept the people of their savior, and in extension, all of mankind. It is christianity that overrides any ethnic awareness, because it puts greater emphasis on belief than on ethnicity. And it is even so arrogant as to dismiss the connection between blood/ethnicity and the cultural expression, because all this does not matter, nor the profane, worldy life of people in their communities, all that matters is the afterlife. So why resist the development, since it happens, it must be god's will.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodovech View Post
    It depends on what you're looking for, ... it's difficult for a particularist religion to lay claim to the full truth, but I guess that's not your objective when proposing to revive/create a tribal religion in modern times.
    Let's not forget particularist religions have proven themselves to be vulnerable for penetration by foreign deities and ideas as well, the Romans jumped at every chance to enlarge their pantheon.
    And the Roman tendency to Universalism ended with Rome's adoption of Christianity, a 'world religion'.
    The 'full truth' in racial particularism is that every race is unique and singular, and that each race has a unique religion that reflects that race and that race only.

    Neither is a particularist religion going to ward off foreign lifestyles (or foreign genes, for that matter) and technology per definition, again the Roman empire is the best example of this fact. The provinces of the Roman empire usually had no qualms about imitating their rulers as much as possible.
    A particularist religion which prohibits race mixing and forbids foreign races [and therefore foreign religions] settling in the sacred land of the race will certainly ward off foreign lifestyles and foreign genes.
    Again, Rome tended to Universalism, and even its pagan religion was lifted from the Greeks. Once a folk forsakes its own racial religion, then it is open for the philosophy of Universalisation which in religious terms ends in a 'world religion', and in political terms ends in Cosmopolitanism and multiculturalism.

    Theoretically speaking that could be true, but this point you make is historically flawed, I would say. For instance, the split between Orthodox and Western Christianity is a cultural-ethnic affair. Arabs will turn to the Church(es) of the East, and not directly to Rome or Moscow. There are exceptions, like the Poles or the Hungarians, but they are exceptions - and curiously enough they're amongst the most ethnically aware peoples of Europe.
    The schisms in the Universal Church were/are largely down to disagreements on dogma - typical of the world religions of 'the book'. The racial religions of 'the blood' need no books.

    And let's not forget that there exists no Western nation(-state) without there being a strong Christian foundation or justification for it.
    Nation states that often rode roughshod over the particularist tribal realities of a heathen Europe. And a Christianity often imposed by the sword so that false Universalist states of a larger Universal Christendom could be created.

    Ultimately, I can be catholic or I could be heathen, but I can never be Italian or Argentinian - or a Dane - or anything else but Flemish.
    I would like to think that the Flemish were Flemish long before the Christian religion was brought to North Western Europe. A true Fleming would then follow the religion of his ancient forebears - his pagan forebears - not the religion spread by foreign invaders.

    There's no contradicition at all. Especially not in our times, where nation-states have replaced empires and kingdoms while at the same time church and state are separated. A particularist religion with a strong racialist undertone religion would simply be an affair of nationalists with a knack for mysticism and a feel for the divine.
    More than a strong racialist undertone is needed. Race must be central to the religion. In these days of Globalisation and Universalism, nation states have largely been swept aside and exist only as administrative sectors. We must once again make the link between the particular race, the particular religion and the particular land - where they are completely synonymous;- this is actually beyond mere nationalism.


    IMO, the immigration policy of a nation is what matters most for preserving its ethnic homogenity, it's a sociopolitical choice, not a religious one - and everything else serves as an interesting afterthought.
    Not so, I believe that one's philosophy is the most findamental aspect - what people think and feel about something. If their unspoken philosophy and Weltanschauung is Universalist then they will accept Globalisation and World Religions. If their outlook is thoroughly particularist, then they will reject those things in toto.
    Why are there beings at all, & why not rather nothing?
    [Leibniz/Heidegger]

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet
    It still is entirely Semitic. The "West" to this day is called "the judeo-christian occident".
    True. That is why so many deluded Christians identify "Hebrew thought" (ask Geert!) together with Greek and Roman thought as one of the ancient cornerstones or bases of "Western civilisation". A religion founded by a Galilean Jew in Roman-occupied Palestine and whose original adherents were all Jews and propagated by a Hellenised Jew from Asia Minor across sections of the Roman Empire cannot be anything else but Semitic. So it is that Christianity has been a Semitic religion from its inception.

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    Eala Freia Fresena
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    For me religion is a reminder that there are Gods, it provides tales of the Gods in a non-verbal language (they use pictures). The stories/myth are given to show that Gods are working and 'real'.

    Religion then also provides means and methods to move oneself into the reality of Gods and recognize them and become part of their aims.


    Different religions provide different means and ways to develope oneself to come into the reality of Gods.

    For me, it is important that the language and methods used are in line and harmony with my culture, upbringing and customs. Growing up as a catholic boy on a catholic school pretty soon I become a rebel because the morals taught were not the morals applied. This hypocrisy caused a deep rift between religion and real life in me. Religion became a means to lie and used the tenants as a way to control.

    As truth has been my interest finally I rejected christianity. I looked for different means to get into the reality of the Gods.

    My conclusion was that christianity is not useful for germanic people, nor is any other religion as such. So the ways should be non-religious or being intricately intertwined with the customs, thinking and culture of me.

    There have been certain avenues, methods, to do that.

    Today I gravitate more and more into germanic mythology and teachings. I am particularly more interested in nature and their spirits and workings and find the description and explanation of germanic mythology by far more enlightening than any other.

    For me christians work with description and methods of an archaic desert tribe. they myth are designed for desert people, as the setting, plots and problems are all of middle-eastern state of mind.

    What I appreciate in germanic mythology is the concept of embracing the 'evil' as well as the 'good'.

    I see myself closer to the a 'Heinrich Faust' than to a 'Jesus Christ'.

    So further I get away from christianity so weirder it becomes.

    I am not saying that Jesus was a fake. I do think that he has genuine teachings which can be useful in gaining access to the divine, I simply think that the way of 'morals' is not mine, I reject them.

    The way of the germanic is not over the a developed (christian) personality (which is still foreign and uses tyrannical methods to control oneself) but it is an intimate connection with one's essence, the core of who one really is. that removes a lot of tension which is created through religions from different cultures as they have to develope a personality which then is in the fight against one's essence to comply with foreign ideas in order to access the divine.

    That fight is not in me, since I go directly to my essence. It is easiest for me to be in that part when I am in nature, something Christianity rejects.

    So for me religion is to apply to the core of myself and look for a connection to the divine there. It seemed for me to be the most healthy approach.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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