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Thread: Russian Racial Types

  1. #1
    Account Inactive Ross's Avatar
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    Russian Racial Types

    http://actors.khv.ru/indexa.htm
    http://actors.khv.ru/indexk.htm
    http://actors.khv.ru/indexs.htm

    That's galleries of USSR actors. Up to 50% are Russians (out of 46 "As" 24 have non-Russian names, while some of the others are/can be Jewish).

    Speaking about Russians (portrayed in these galleries) I estimate the Nordic share at 30-35% (in the Guenther's sense), Baltic/UP at 20-30% and the rest are East-Baltics (both of Nordic and Baltic origin) and different Asiatic and Med types.

    So Gentlemen and Ladies, how many Nordics and UPs you can see here? Overall, IMO, 15% Nordics and 10-15% "Baltic" UPs. Shares of Ukes and Latvians/Lithuanians are not important, besides, they're mostly EB...
    Last edited by Ross; Thursday, December 26th, 2002 at 06:39 AM.

  2. #2
    Account Inactive Ross's Avatar
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    There are two main anthropological zone in Russia proper (that's Russia within borders of the Great Duchy of Moscow in 14-15th centuries):

    1. Western Great Russian zone
    2. Eastern Great Russian zone

    Up until 60s (when several big anthropological expeditions were organized in Russia, Ukraine and Bielorussia) anthropologists had no relevant, verified data even on the living population, and only in 80-90s they've got enough paleoanthropological data (on ancient population which lived 1500-500 years back) for comparison (to establish ethnical and racial roots). Besides, it wasn't allowed to write about RACES in the Soviet times, only TYPES, it was possible to use only "Northern Europid" - "Southern Europid" categories, thou Europid-Mongolid question was freely discussed, and, perhaps, it was possible to mention pre-revolutional and foreign anthropological concepts (and thus Races, like Nordic, Alpine etc).

    The last person who used Racial terms in the Soviet Times was Bunak (and he stoped to use them in 30s), who supported the concept of the Baltic Race, and Europid charater of the Uralic (partially Coon's Ladogan) Race, thus it's rather hard to correlate anthropological types with Races. Fortunatly, in the latest books Racial categories were revitalized, and now I can enlighten you, reader about Racial composition of Russians, as well as Bielorussians, Ukrainians and Balts and Finns... and even Germans!

    So the first zone - Western Great Russian - can be considered as Balto-Nordic. On average, pigmentation is lighter (or at least equale) than in Scandinavia.

    Two types: Valdai and Ilmen-Dnepr.

    Valdai type is Baltic, and was formed on the basis of the (Eastern) Bruenn Race. Tall stature (btw, gentlemen, Russians used to be on the tallest nation with Swedes and Norses before 1864, but after it, due to worse economical condition, my nation somewhat shrank :-/), CI 81-83, light pigmentation, middle to narrow face, narrow to middle nose. Pigmentation is equale or a *bit* darker than in Scandinavia. This type was represented by ancient Balts and influenced by Nordic/BA Slavs.

    Ilmen Dnepr type is generalized BA in origine, greatly influenced by Baltic strain. Tall stature, CI 79-81, narrow face, narrow nose. Pigmentation is equale or lighter than in Scandinavia.

    Both types are high-skulled. Nowhere in Russia head's height is less than 130-132mm, and that's great than with Troenders.

    Second zone - Eastern Great Russian - can be considered Nordic - Med - Baltic (there are purer enclaves, of course).

    Two or three main types:

    Don-Sursk type - Nordic-Med, with Baltic admixture, CI 78-79, narrow face, narrow nose, due to Med admixture head's height is smaller - only 130mm (?)

    Upper Volga type - Nordic-Baltic-Med CI 79-80 etc

    And of course there are many mixes of these types, such as the East-European type of the Central Russia which is composed of all these types with EB admixture in the East.

    Of course, this ancient (19th century) system based on pigmentation, but, perhaps, it reflects ethnogenesis of Russians better, so it's favored.

    In NE and in the East of Central Russia slight Monglid influence detected, but in the Russia proper (without later colonized NE Russia) EB Race has only 2%.

    EB types are mainly represented by the Volga-Kama group of Russians and the White Sea group of Northen Finns (Karelians, Vepses etc).

    regards

    PS. First two pics are for the Ilmen-Dnepr group, both are Nordic of the BA Race, second two pics are for the Volga-Kama group, first is BA with slight EB admixture, second is Baltic (I fail to see real Mongoloidism). Third two pics are for the SW mixed zone (bordering Ukraine), first one is Baltic, second is Med/Dinaric?
    Last two pics are for the Don-Sursk group. First is Nordic/Baltic/Med, second is Nordic/BA, probably with Med admixture.

    PPS. To be continued

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    In NE and in the East of Central Russia slight Monglid influence detected, but in the Russia proper (without later colonized NE Russia) EB Race has only 2%.
    Welcome back Ross! You have been absent for a little while I've noticed.

    What you claim makes sense genetically.

    The presense of hg 12 equates to mongoloid admixture.
    As you can see, the Russians are said to 4% of hg 12, yet this most likely includes more than just Russia proper.

    hg 12

    Mari 17
    Czech 6
    Estonian 4
    Russian 4
    Yugoslavian 2
    Cypriot 2
    Finnish 2

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    Who are the Mari?

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    Who are the Mari?
    A Siberian ethnic group I believe.

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    Recently I have found data that Russia is the most numerous Nordic nation. Hmmm...I wonder why I don't see it on the usual Nordicist Fetish pages.
    It seems that countries like Russia, Belrussia and Ukraine are the true reservoirs of the White Race despite the Tatar minorities.
    Perhaps Russian nationalists during Tzar which called Russia to be "The Third Rome" are not far from the truth. Perhaps Russia shall be the country that shall liberate the West from Jewish multicultural race-mixers and muds.

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    Account Inactive Ross's Avatar
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    Hello Trønder,

    I don't make claims, it's "official" anthropological data, I just summarized it.

    I believe both HG12/HG16 and HG26 are Mongoloid markers, as they perfectly (more or less, of course) match the current racial situation and racial history.

    Actually, genetical data can't correspond to anthropological surveys, at least now.

    Where were the genetical tests taken? Who knows... I can only guess that a rather representative sample from small Bielorussia shows the real level of Mongolid admixture in the Baltic (Valdai) and Nordic (Ilmen-Dnepr) local types, and as these types are the absolute majority in Russia proper...

    The problem is that anthropologists recognize as ethnical Russians only population of Russia proper, that's in the borders of 15th century. In the past 100 years there was a lot of movement from outer regions to cities, esp. Moscow, where, I believe, these samples were taken... no need to travel to Novgorod, huh? or take one sample per region - it's absurd! (only abou 100 samples were taken)... I can also conclude, that the incredible level of Near East genes comes from the Moscow Jews, as Ukraine and Bielorussia are low/null in Near East markers.

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    I don't make claims, it's "official" anthropological data, I just summarized it.
    My apologies. Perhaps I used the incorrect terminology.

    I believe both HG12/HG16 and HG26 are Mongoloid markers, as they perfectly (more or less, of course) match the current racial situation and racial history.
    I agree that hg 16, or Uralic haplogroup is not native to Europe, yet would you not say that its presense in Finland, Russia, and the Baltic is too great for it to be mongoloid?

    hg 16

    Finnish 61
    Lithuanian 47
    Saami 42
    Estonian 37
    Mari 33
    Latvian 32
    Chuvash 18
    Russian 14
    Ukranian 11
    Northern Swedish 8
    Gotlander 6
    Norwegian 4
    Polish 4
    German 3
    Armenian 3
    Slovakian 3
    Belarusian 2
    Danish 2
    Turkish 1

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    The Mari emerged as a distinct ethnic group in the 6th century. They came under the Khazar Empire in the 8th century and then were ruled by the Volga Bulgars from the mid-9th to 12th centuries. Mari territory was conquered by the Mongol Tatars in the 1230s and was ruled by the Kazan Khanate until annexation by the Russians in 1552.

    Eastern Mari

    Government of Mari-El

    Vasli's Homepage


    He must be a Russian.

    Originally posted by NordischesBlutundEhre
    Who are the Mari?

  10. #10
    Account Inactive Ross's Avatar
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    Troender,

    It seems Mongolid admixture has far smaller effect than Negroid...

    Anyway, I don't believe in this figures much. More detailed studies show lesser incidence of HG16 in Eastern Europe.
    Besides, with Maternal Lines being very low we can suppose X/2 = amount of Mongoloid admixture.

    So these fugures are good for Europe as a whole, not specific countries. We just cansee that Mongolid admixture in Bielorussia is very low, and it's higher in Russia and Ukraine - reasons are clear...


    hg 16

    Finnish 61
    Lithuanian 47
    Saami 42
    Estonian 37
    Mari 33
    Latvian 32
    Chuvash 18
    Russian 14
    Ukranian 11
    Northern Swedish 8
    Gotlander 6
    Norwegian 4
    Polish 4
    German 3
    Armenian 3
    Slovakian 3
    Belarusian 2
    Danish 2
    Turkish 1

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