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Thread: Compare Celts and Germanics: Physical Differences

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    Blue or brown eyed

    "And I am sure there were black and brown haired Celtic and Vikings too."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfdan_the_Black

    People here are widely discussing recessive genes. As a Germanic female, we have some of the largest variability in the world to have an offspring with recessive phenotypes like red or white-blond hair and blue or green eyes. About half of my relatives are either blond and blue-eyed or lighter brown hair with brown-eyes. Not all genes have mutated to produce %100 recessive traits. As much as Germanic people may prize the lighter complexions, it is still a probability outcome of genes. If more people value the light-haired and tall stature, then, you'll see a higher frequency of red or blond heads and blue-eyed people. Sometimes, it can skip every other generation but returns as a genetic "check."

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    Tacitus stated that Caledonians and Germans both had auburn hair. He basically linked up Britons with Gauls and Silurians with Iberians.

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    Long-winded but interesting POV

    Both Celts and Germanics are ethno-cultural terms in the broader sense of the word, but with definite phenotypical variation amongst each group - ESPECIALLY nowadays (compare South Tyroleans with East Norwegians; even within the modern nation of Germany, Bavarians are going to look radically different to Schleswig-Holsteiners etcetera).

    The best answer though, if we go back to the Iron Age, would be that Germanics tend to be blonder, lighter eyed, more Cromagnoid and with larger Corded influences (epitomised by the Anglo-Saxon type), whereas Celts tend to be more rufous, darker eyed, more Aurignacoid and with Baskid influences (epitomised by the Keltic Nordid type).

    If you believe Coon, both ultimately trace their basic origin to the Hallstatt type - but given our current anthrogenetic understanding it seems that the common link would be the Aunjetitz type before it. While I think this is true of the Nordid origins of Celts and Germanics, I don't see the modern Østerdal type as being derived from Aunjetitz given its virtual absence of rufosity (and Aunjetitz's association with R1b) - here, I think, similarly to Coon, that the Østerdal type was formed from a blending of Corded (via the Boat Axe culture) and Danubian (via the Funnelbeaker culture) elements, whereas the Aunjetitz type was formed from a similar reduction of the Corded type, but predominantly by the Beaker type (but naturally, also by the Danubian type, given this was after all an advance into Neolithic Europe). Note that in both instances, the Corded type acts as the basic vector through which the proto-Nordid type is transferred.

    Unlike Coon, I do not see why reduction of the Corded type (mainly via broadening and shortening of the skull) has to have been transferred through the Danubian type - it could easily, in my opinion, have also been transferred through the Beaker type, but naturally this reduction would have been more potent given the latter's higher CI, so the mix must have been more heavily orientated autosomally toward the Corded type. This also fits our anthrogenetic understanding, with (outside of the elevated Mediterranean component, which has already been explained by the fact that this I-E advance was into Neolithic Europe) the Aunjetitz people able to be largely modelled genetically as some kind of intermediate between the Corded and Beaker people, which again largely matches our best anthropological inferences of cultural history in East-Central Europe around the turn of the Bronze Age.

    According to Eupedia, "DNA samples from the Aunjetitz culture (2300-1600 BCE) in Germany, which emerged less than two centuries after the apperance of the first R1b-L51 individuals in the late Bell Beaker Germany, had a slightly higher percentage of Yamna ancestry (60~65%) and of Yamna-related mtDNA lineages, which indicates a migration of both Steppe men and women" - in other words, again in my opinion, male Beaker elites of Y DNA R1b (or perhaps more numerous similar types from the Pannonian plain, like those from the Vučedol culture) bred with Corded females to create the racial type of the Aunjetitz culture, which is ancestral to the earliest proto-Italo-Celtic and proto-Germanic peoples of Europe. So if you go back far enough, they're the same, but of course there has been more than enough cultural and phenotypical divergence since Aunjetitz to call them distinctly different peoples.

    Just remember though, Aunjetitz is the Celto-Germanic womb!

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    As a youth, I always thought of complexion differences: Blonde-haired and blue-eyed Germans, Red-headed and green-eyed Celts. Greco-Roman populations would be brunettes and brown-eyed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindir View Post
    23andme is about your ancestry til the Antiquity period if I am not mistaken. They gathered populations results to call them by several categories, they usually even gather pops who have nothing to do together but nevermind They are calling it by the current country name.

    If you wanna know if you are from more Celtic or German ancestry then you should go further with tests as you can find on Gedmatch. 23andme would never help you to determine if you are more Celtic or Germanic

    Also reading more about the ethnogenesis of your ancestors could help you to know if they were more Germanics or Celts.

    Very interesting thread by the way, specially about the North Western euro people traits which is hard to determine if they come from the germanic input or celtic roots.

    I have my GEDmatch results, what test will tell me this the most accurately?

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