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Thread: Compare Celts and Germanics: Physical Differences

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    Aka Devadatta Niall Noigiallach's Avatar
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    Aye but depends on what you call the decline, the fall and lack of power in my eyes is not the decline in and of itself, it's when seed is actually being sown; the sprout is the practical and visual decline whereas the seed is the idea and precursor.

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    I'm accustomed to calling the "Decline of the Roman Empire" by the usual standards (Anscombe, Gibbons, etc) - and also according to the theory that once they stopped expanding, they plateaued and then contracted - the contraction part is the decline.

    You can have them decline all the way through their entire empire-building phase if you want to, but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

    And as to race-mixing, I would be very curious to know if the people living in England thought of the Romans as a different race - or just a different tribe. Certainly it seems the English were taller than the Romans (and both sides comment on this physical difference). But Roman soldiers seemed eager enough to marry with women of the Isle, and it's hard to know whether they thought of themselves as "races." Certainly the Romans thought they themselves were highly civilized and the English, Scots, Germanic groups were all barbarians (some less so than others).

    But a person can divide their own race into civilized and uncivilized types, noble and ignoble, if they choose - I don't know enough about how either Brits or Romans thought back at 40-70 A.D. - I suspect there are people who know way more than I do about it though so I should check them out.

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    As far as I know the real Kelts are from Switzerland,Bavaria,Austria and France.
    Caesar never called the British "Celts" when he invaded the island.He did say
    that some Belgians had settled in Kent though and from what I know the
    Belgians where Gauls so I guess you could say that makes them Kelts.

    The famous picture of the winged victory helmet you see sometimes in old paintings from central Europe is Keltic in origin.Even the famous Greek statue
    called the "Dying Gaul" is a real Kelt from the area around the city of Trier.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_Gaul

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trier

    Vercingetorix King of the Gauls.



    Oh,another way to tell that the English,Irish and Scots are not real "Celts"
    is that none of their leader names ever ended in Rex or Ric.That is a dead
    give away.Britons leaders where named like Cadwallon, Cassivellaunus and
    so forth.Ancient Britons worshiped the sun god Bel and the cross with
    the circle around it or the "Celtic" cross represents two sticks that you
    rub together to light the sacred fire to the sun god Bel.

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    Senior Member wittwer's Avatar
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    Celts and Germanics

    Physical differences are the result of Genetics. If one takes the predominate Western European genetic haplogroup of R1b and the secondary R1a as the predominate haplogroups of both the Celts and Germanics, it follows that their physical attributes well be similiar if not indistiguishable. Once again, Celtic or Germanic identification is Cultural, not genetic or physical.

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    Thanks for the replies. I've been doing some research of my own, and it seems like racial theorists are split.

    One group suggests:
    -Celts and Germanic people are physically similar, only their culture differs.

    The other suggests:
    -Celts are predominantly Germanic with a small Dinarid influence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ætheling View Post
    The other suggests:
    -Celts are predominantly Germanic with a small Dinarid influence.
    Celts are predominantly apples with a small pear influence, or how shall we understand this? Germanic is an ethno-linguistic term that excludes Celts, Dinarid is an anthropological-racial term that includes specimens both present and past of both Germanics and Celts, but not exclusively.

    Assuming stuff such as sub-race as a denominator for different parts of the Western Indo-Europeans is rather erroneous, findings suggest that the formation of those racial types are older than the respective ethnogeneses. An "IF and ONLY IF" conclusion cannot be deduced.

    If we assumed "Northern Cro-Magnid/Nordid mixture" as a denominator for Germanendom on a racial scale, then non-IE Estonia would be more Germanic than Germany, this is a definition I'd fuss with greatly.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

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    I'm finding this thread helpful, so far, in understanding how the term Germanic is properly used as an ethno-linguistic term (to some extent culture and language must intersect and overlap).

    Many a name I thought of as "English" turns out to have come in with one or the other of the Danish/Viking/Norman conquests/migrations. I'm left truly curious about which place names and surnames in England are actually Celtish in origin. Authuri, for example, shows up earlier on the continent than in England.

    Fascinating stuff.
    Always recognize that human individuals are ends, and do not use them as means to your end.
    ~~Immanuel Kant~~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ætheling View Post
    During the Roman occupation of Britain it was written that the native Celts were on average far taller than the Romans (Celtic women were taller than Roman men), had light hair and blue eyes. To me, they sound as though they have a similar appearance to Germanic/Nordic people, but everything I read suggest that the Celts had nothing to do with the Germanics. What are the major physical differences between the two groups (if there is any?). Thanks.
    I am not so sure about that. We have so little real data regarding the Celts, but its interesting that the Old English language gave birth to modern day English and German. Actually, although German is different in the organization of words from the English we speak today, there are far more cognates between modern day English and German to ignore that linguistic connection.

    You information about the Romans being shorter than Celtic women I agree with. I cannot remember the historian who noted it, but the Celtic women fought with the men and many Celts actually fought naked, which really freaked the Romans out. I have no idea why they did that, but the psychological effect must habe been intense.

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    Firstly, let's bare in mind that the Romans; who geneticaly are not tall on average, tended to dramatise things, especialy when it comes to tall bare chested, blonde spikey haired, wild eyed, painted madmen from Britain which was everything a roman civilian and indeed a soldier would have heard. Let's also not forget that before the roman occupation of Gaul, the Borders between the celts on one side and the Germsnics on the other were wide open. This means there probably were intermarages, battles and other such contact.

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    When the Romans and Greeks described the Celts and Germanics as blond or red-haired, they meant that there were far more blonds and redheads among them than among Mediterranean peoples. There were blond Romans and Greeks, but they were rare.
    Even the Norse had many dark-haired people, and even black hair, while rare, was not unknown. Brodir Harsark, the Viking Jarl of Man who perished at the Battle of Clontarf, was famed for his long, black beard and hair, which he wore in braids almost to his feet. Brodir was also famed as a wizard, and may have grown his hair so long to fortify his reputation, as the Norse associated black hair with magic.
    The Romans routinely exagerrated the size of their enemies, to make their own victories more striking.

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