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Thread: Are Germanics a Sub-Race of the Celts?

  1. #11
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    First, I know Stephen McNallen having corresponded with him and talked to him on the telephone about a topic unrelated to this one. He is into Odinism but he is no Indo-European expert. In fact he is or was an engineer. He ran some sort of retreat or colony or commune for awhile.

    Catterick is asking a more basic question. Celts pre-dated Germanics everywhere except perhaps in some fantasy phylogeny such as that of Robert Howard. Where Germans are now were formerly Celts and their language is more complex as is their mythology and obviously has a much older feeling to it. There are several possibilities for the origins of the Germanics but they all stem from Celts, whether it be Illyrians (Hallstatt) or LaTene. All those lands even though other sub-cultures (Bell Beakers, etc.) came and went were essentially Celts. Somehow a group of people got isolated in Southern Sweden for 500-1000 years and became Germanics. Maybe Germanic language is a trade language and its culture is an amalgam of two other cultures which needed to be simplified in order for that culture to survive. Nobody really knows for sure.

  2. #12
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    The ease with which IE phylogeny is sorted when you exclude Germanic suggests proto-Germanic was a contact language or creole similar to Romanian or Bulgarian today.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    The ease with which IE phylogeny is sorted when you exclude Germanic suggests proto-Germanic was a contact language or creole similar to Romanian or Bulgarian today.
    Or Canuck or Swahili.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    Or Canuck or Swahili.
    But Romanian and Bulgarian are both within Indo-European and assignable to existing families as the most peculiar members. At the time of proto-Germanic it would surely have appeared as a weird odd one out.

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    Nope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    But Romanian and Bulgarian are both within Indo-European and assignable to existing families as the most peculiar members. At the time of proto-Germanic it would surely have appeared as a weird odd one out.
    You have heard Celtic spoken. We can agree it is far more complex than English. English is a simplified Germanic language which is already simplified. Perhaps English was further simplified to accommodate both English and Danish speakers. New languages have to have a reason and the reason could be trade or interaction of two related languages.

    There is another theory that Germanic was a trade language between an Indo-European group and a non-Indo-European group such as Finnish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    You have heard Celtic spoken. We can agree it is far more complex than English. English is a simplified Germanic language which is already simplified. Perhaps English was further simplified to accommodate both English and Danish speakers. New languages have to have a reason and the reason could be trade or interaction of two related languages.
    Middle English developed out of Old English under North Germanic influence in the time of the Danelaw.

    There is another theory that Germanic was a trade language between an Indo-European group and a non-Indo-European group such as Finnish.
    Don't you mean the evidence for a language substrate beneath Germanic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Middle English developed out of Old English under North Germanic influence in the time of the Danelaw.



    Don't you mean the evidence for a language substrate beneath Germanic?
    No, I know of no such evidence. Only Indo-European words such as are found in other Indo-European languages. It is the abrupt simplicity which is hard to explain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
    No, I know of no such evidence. Only Indo-European words such as are found in other Indo-European languages. It is the abrupt simplicity which is hard to explain.
    There are a few theories about a substrate vocabulary in Germanic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    There are a few theories about a substrate vocabulary in Germanic.
    Well GO, let's hear them.

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