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Thread: Russians: Hans Günther Exposed

  1. #11
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    Ha! Now Galileo and Titian are "Nordic"... as well as Savonarola

    http://www4.stormfront.org/whitehistory/reoehchap9b.htm

    And this guy is EB?

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    That guy looks Sub-nordic with perhaps some tiny EB.

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    Originally posted by HELLSTAR
    That guy looks Sub-nordic with perhaps some tiny EB.
    Nothing really points to EB/Mongolid admixture. Nose is long and well bridged, lower jaw is rather narrow, byzygomatic arches are visible and face is broadish, but cheekbones are compressed.

    Conclusion: Nordic/UP mix.

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    You make it sound like I said pure EB or something. I said perhaps with a tiny EB strain and I still think that if you look at his eyes and physiognomic karma.
    I have no opinion on your other proposal as i do not find old paintings to be that valid. I seen total different paintings of same person with various outcome, so lets forget that talk.

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    Originally posted by HELLSTAR
    You make it sound like I said pure EB or something. I said perhaps with a tiny EB strain and I still think that if you look at his eyes and physiognomic karma.
    I have no opinion on your other proposal as i do not find old paintings to be that valid. I seen total different paintings of same person with various outcome, so lets forget that talk.
    No, I fully understood you, just wanted to make some points. It can be eyes, but he could squinting... What's "karma", may I inquire?

    You mean you saw his (my attachment) photos with other angles? Or you're talking about another person?

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    Well, you should bear in mind that Günther was basing his statements on the work of Slavic authors. (As Günther notes, it was Bunak who suggested that the Riazan type was proto-Mongoloid.) So, if they were wrong, he wasn't likely to be right. He couldn't be an expert on everything, therefore he relied on the work of others.

    Günther also couldn't consider data, like the study cited in Coon you produced, that was only published after he wrote his book. Finally, the Soviet Union in the 1920s was hardly condusive to foreign anthropological expeditions roaming about the country. The fact that most of the home-grown anthropology was written in Russian, also limited the audience for such stuff.

    BTW, Günther said Savonarola was Dinaric; the caption on that page must be a typo.

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    Some say that Dinarics and Armenoids are related. That guy looks like an Armenoid from the profile.

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    Originally posted by Ross
    Nothing really points to EB/Mongolid admixture. Nose is long and well bridged, lower jaw is rather narrow, byzygomatic arches are visible and face is broadish, but cheekbones are compressed.

    Conclusion: Nordic/UP mix.
    What!? "Nose is long and high bridged"??? Hahahahaha
    It's funny what Russians call high bridged these days......

    He has a fucking short and flat pug nose! Are you blind or what??
    Lower jaw narrow? Are you sure you are talking about the same man in that picture? He looks Russian to me......x_barf

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    Heimdall,

    It's hard to understand Guenther here. I gather he (wrongly) supposed that Eastern Finns and Ryazan Russians are related, but it's his own speculation, not based on works of Russian anthropologists. Both Chepurkovsky and Bunak designated as "proto-Finnish" and "Uralic" Wotyaks and Ostyaks and Voguls, not Ryazan/Tambov/Penza Russians.

    In fact, this group (the Eastern Great Russian type) is a subdivision of the Ilmen-Dnepr group - Novgorod Russians and Russians and Bielorussian in the Northen Dnepr region, btw Guenther speaks about Dvina Nordics (exactly the same region), and Coon says that in the Novgorod area Nordic starins increase...

    Up until 60s no comprehensive and verified anthropological data on living Eastern Slavs was available, and only now Slavic paleoanthropology finally able to meet its ends.

    There is a region in Great Russia which should be especially mentioned, a region of short, mesocephalic, dark-haired, brown-eyed people, south and south-east from Moscow in the districts of Riazan and Tambov, and reaching thence in a north-east direction to the districts of the (generally dolichocephalic) Cheremisses, the Wotyaks, the Ostyaks, and the Voguls in Asia. Are we to suppose a Mediterranean strain in the case of these people, who have been called 'proto-Finnish' or (by Chepurkovsky) 'the Riazan type,' or (by Bunak) 'Uralic'? However, it does not accord with the picture of the Mediterranean race that these 'proto-Finns' should have flat, broad foreheads and cheek-bones set at an outward slant. These characters would again remind us of an 'Asiatic' type; and Bunak suspects in this race a 'proto-Mongoloid' form. What is very noteworthy, however, in this region is the marked mesocephaly (cephalic index 76-79), which in a brachycephalic environment like this points to the admixture of a dolichocephalic race.

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    >>It's hard to understand Guenther here. I gather he (wrongly) supposed that Eastern Finns and Ryazan Russians are related, but it's his own speculation, not based on works of Russian anthropologists. Both Chepurkovsky and Bunak designated as "proto-Finnish" and "Uralic" Wotyaks and Ostyaks and Voguls, not Ryazan/Tambov/Penza Russians.<<

    I presume that he was mislead by the name that the type was given by Russian authors: Riazan. This was probably the source of the confusion, at least in part.

    >>Up until 60s no comprehensive and verified anthropological data on living Eastern Slavs was available, and only now Slavic paleoanthropology finally able to meet its ends.<<

    Yes, data was scarce in the past. It's good that some of it is being put on the web, and translated. We need to see as much data as possible, so that a more complete picture can be drawn.

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