Alpinids and Borrebies

[Siegfried]

I'm experiencing difficulties distinguishing these two types from one another, probably because of my limited anthropological knowledge. Could some of you please help me out, and perhaps provide some pictures to outline the basic differences between the two types? I'd greatly appreciate it.

[Phill]

To my limited knowledge... Borreby is very tall and depigmented.

I don't know too much about Alpines, all i really do know is that they can be kind of darker skinned (like a tan, for example) and are generally medium build/stature... And i'm not even sure if those are 100% right, so i'm sorry i can't be too much help.

[nordic_canadian_male]

Borreby:
square face
taller
long arms
light pigmentation
heavier musculature

Alpine:
round face
moderate stature
short arms
darker
more lightly built

These are the easiest diffrences to perceive.

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

Borreby has a "square head", is larger and more de-pigmented. Alpines are shorter and less angular in the head. Some say Alpines are reduced Borrebys.

[Frans_Jozef]

In its most primitive form, the Neolithic Alpine surprises by having the lowest basion-bregmatic height of the entire West European Neolithic, relatively broad skull comparable to the Dinaroid Beaker folk of the Rhineland(with its infusion of scarse Borreby elements) but in lenght exceeding every Beaker group, the glabella is prominent and the forehead receding, Houzé dared even to regard them as a Neanderthal survival in the Mosan region of present-day Belgium and spoke of a Spy-La Naulette race.

[Nordhammer]

Borreby:
square face
taller
long arms
light pigmentation
heavier musculature

Alpine:
round face
moderate stature
short arms
darker
more lightly built

These are the easiest diffrences to perceive.

Right, but the main criterion is head size. Borrebies have a larger head even if the Alpine and the Borreby are the same height.

The difference is similar to the Mediterranean compared to the Nordic. Which is strange to me that some people want to call everything Alpinoid, but then have a dozen different Nordic types.

[Glenlivet]

The Borreby skull was short headed. What some nowadays call Borreby in Northern Europe is usually sub-brachycephalic while Alpinid should be clearly brachycephalic. Borreby is as you said more depigmented, taller, and bigger in all dimensions. Nyessen included Nordid up to 82 (80 on crania) of the living. There are different ideas about the origin of Borreby but to me the Borreby in Denmark, NW Germany and N Netherlands, is basically Nordid. It is obviously not a Corded-Danubian type but Nordid is also a convention and in the minds of most commoners whom I know Borreby is Nordid. Maybe extreme Borreby look quite un-Nordid but at least Nordid altered by Borreby which is common in Northern Netherlands and maybe elsewhere in the Low countries is considered Nordid.

To illustrate my point I will attach Rosita Runegrund, a Swedish woman. I'm pretty sure that no Swede would consider her anything but Nordid. Compare her with Audrey Tautou, an Alpinid,
http://www.askmen.com/women/actress_...ey_tautou.html

[morfrain_encilgar]

Borreby has a "square head", is larger and more de-pigmented. Alpines are shorter and less angular in the head. Some say Alpines are reduced Borrebys.

The square headed Borreby can be compared to a more robust version of the Osteuropid. In the Borreby, and in the true Osteuropids, the brachycephalic element is contributed by the Alpine lineage. (An Osteuropid-like type appared in the Danube region later after hybridisation with Neomongoloids, who are also brachycephalic.)

The Nordic contribution into the Borreby type would have been from a robust type related to Nordics, explaining the differences we see between the Borreby and the Osteuropid types.

[Gareth]

Are these good examples of Borreby facial traits?
http://www.barnallergiaret.nu/pressr...t/aaf00061.jpg
(Sweden)
http://members.chello.at/h3llbring0r...przedaz094.jpg
(Poland)
http://media.de.indymedia.org/images/2002/08/28330.jpg
(Germany)

The square headed Borreby can be compared to a more robust version of the Osteuropid. In the Borreby, and in the true Osteuropids, the brachycephalic element is contributed by the Alpine lineage. (An Osteuropid-like type appared in the Danube region later after hybridisation with Neomongoloids, who are also brachycephalic.)

Why are they more often long-headed then like the Brünns, while the Alpines, from whom they descended in your opinion, are not? Many speak of seperated Cro-Magnon lineage and afterward brachycephalization in this context. Also, I don't see that so labeled 'UPs' descend from Neo-Mongoloids (= Northern Mongoloids ). That would mean all Non-Neolithics are post-Mongoloids.

What are these people from Yemen?
http://img2.imgspot.com/u/04/185/01/yemen.jpg
Recent relationship of South Germans and French ?

- - -
It's exaggeration calling the Alpines/Subnordics of today round-headed. Their heads' shapes are oval.

Square-headed pigmented South German:
http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040616/1087359766.jpg

Round-headed light North German:
http://www.ystart.net/upload/20040616/1087351074.jpg

[morfrain_encilgar]

Many speak of seperated Cro-Magnon lineage and afterward brachycephalization in this context.

I think the brachycephalisation is from an Alpine element, mixing with such a robust type, rather than independent in the Borreby type.

Also, I don't see that so labeled 'UPs' descend from Neo-Mongoloids (= Northern Mongoloids ). That would mean all Non-Neolithics are post-Mongoloids.

Actually the Neomongoloids only appear in the Neolithic themselves, but in Hungary the appearence of an Osteuropid-like type occured after the arrival of Neomongoloids among Nordics. I mentioned this to show how brachycephalic admixture can produce an Osteuropid-like type from a Nordic population.