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Thread: Catholic Theologians Call for End to Celibacy for Priests

  1. #21
    Senior Member Lothringen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardito View Post
    It can be inferred as a worthy ascetic practice from the personal conduct of Jesus, who was celibate.
    Despite this is the "official" interpretation, some people debate that as any man of Israël, Jesus could have been married around 20.
    We know just a little about is chilhood, then BLANK until 30...

    So is there spawn of Jesus & Magdalena as Dan Brown suggests ?

    This is not evident even if you can prove that social environment of Jesus lead him to marry.
    Imaginating that he had a wife, who, like many, died after giving birth to a child, or got killed (with the children) in this era of trouble:
    "Josephus recounts another incident in which Pilate spent money from the Temple to build an aqueduct. When Jews again protested his actions, Pilate had soldiers hidden in the crowd of Jews while addressing them. After giving the signal, Pilate's soldiers randomly attacked, beat, and killed scores of Jews to silence their petitions"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius...ish_literature
    Such an event could have lead Jesus choosing non-violence protest and trying to "convert" the Romans rather than trying full opposition. We know that Christ was THE one who always forgives but never forget.
    (personnaly I won't argue on this hypothesis, but I find it very useful when some atheist start finding suspect the idea of a 30 years old virgin in the antiquity and start saying some gay bullshit about the "disciple that Jesus loved", I just answer "maybe it was the brother of his wife or the fiancee of his dead daughter ?")


    Therefore dicovery of a Christ weeding would be totally irrelevent for my faith as it is not incompatible with the Gospel. No need to imagine any affair with Magdalena, or hoax between Golgotha and the Tomb.

    If you have encounter widow & widower, you may have notice that several of them who loved so deeply the lost mate can definitively not even think about having relationship with anybody else, thinking even a memory could be betrayed. For this kind of people, chastity & celibacy would never be a problem. Even "better", they sometimes love so much beyond death that it is strictly out of question that there would not be a "paradise" prepared for the loved one and a God welcome him/her at his side. Serving God become therefore a way to assure the best afterlife for the loved one. Especially if the God transmit some messages during prayer answers.

    That remember be an explanation about the virginity of Joan of Arc, largely doubted by unbelievers because she was a 17 girl in the middle of plenty of young handsome knights.
    In Sobesky movie, she had a boyfriend in Domremy and perhaps the wish to be her wife (don't forget that even after the "voices" Joan's father tried to marry her). In this time because of strict education (and lack of reliable contraception) teenager wouldn't do anything except taking hand before weeding. After seeing him burning alive during the burgund raid on Domremy, she was not really ready for a new relationship...

  2. #22
    Senior Member Gruno's Avatar
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    I hope celibacy can be put on an end once and for all. By allowing priests of all denominations to be married they will have an outlet for their sexual frustrations and hopefully will no longer take it out on choirboys and girls from the orphanage. Celibacy, whether forced or voluntary, is unnatural.

  3. #23
    Sound methods Chlodovech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lothringen View Post
    Despite this is the "official" interpretation, some people debate that as any man of Israël, Jesus could have been married around 20.
    We know just a little about is chilhood, then BLANK until 30...

    So is there spawn of Jesus & Magdalena as Dan Brown suggests ?
    Mary Magdalene kept nagging until Christ finally gave in, and married her. Because that's how she was. Nag, nag, nag. She never gave the Lord a moment's rest.

    Alas for the mason Dan Brown and his radical feminist wife (she fed him a lot of ideas for the Da Vinci Code, we have a word for her kind, we call them 'Magheads') there's not a single shred of evidence to support the marriage theory, and a baby was never in the picture, not in the Bible, and not in the gnostic writings. It's masonic spin on a rumour that has been circulating at least since the Middle Ages. Also, according to a (rather weak) tradition M.M. was married to Christ's favorite disciple, btw.

    Furthermore, the notion of Christ having a child seems to contradict His claim of His kingdom not being of this earth. And in choosing to procreate He would've indulged in the same sin as the 'sons of God' did in Genesis: 'race-mixing' between humans and beings God created. Something I find problematic if you believe that God is Jesus.

    Magheads need a deity with working sex organs and a dream husband. Plenty of those pairings outside the confines of Christianity, but there aren't a lot of Magheads who have the courage to venture outside of "safe" parameters. When religion as they learned it no longer has relevance or runs counter to their life choices, they can either find another religion that does or re-work the old one...

    Mary Magdalene being an apostle is something I could wrap my mind around if it turned out to be true - or even as Christ's favorite disciple, as some gnostic texts would have it. M.M. is of huge importance anyway, she's the apostle to the apostles, she financed them, her eyes were the first to see the risen Christ, and she's a very popular saint.

    Mary Madgalene as Christ's favorite woman, I don't object to that idea either, it's biblical.

    But everything else is just a modern day attempt to find a female equivalent for Christ, one that pushes Christ to the background at times. The role of women has changed in our century, some people therefore feel that christianity has to adapt to this new reality, and the story needs to be rewritten.

    Catholicism already has a poster girl in the shape of Christ's mother, M.M. is an excellent number 2, but I suppose its due to M.M.'s (undeserved) bad reputation, plus the fact that she seems to be the only character of flesh and blood, easy to connect with and human-like (in contrast with Our Lady, it's impossible for mere mortals to attain her greatness), in the Christ story, that she speaks to the imagination of New Age nutters, masons, christians and the public at large alike.

    That remember be an explanation about the virginity of Joan of Arc, largely doubted by unbelievers because she was a 17 girl in the middle of plenty of young handsome knights.
    In Sobesky movie, she had a boyfriend in Domremy and perhaps the wish to be her wife (don't forget that even after the "voices" Joan's father tried to marry her). In this time because of strict education (and lack of reliable contraception) teenager wouldn't do anything except taking hand before weeding. After seeing him burning alive during the burgund raid on Domremy, she was not really ready for a new relationship...
    I disrespect Christian Duguay for depicting St. Jeanne in such a way. Not because having a relationship to a knight would be the end of the world - there are plenty of married saints, it's no big deal - but by adding elements to the original hagiography and sexing up the story for a contemporary audience.
    "After the year 1900 people will become unrecognisable. When the time for the Advent of the Antichrist approaches, peoples minds will grow cloudy from carnal passions, and dishonour and lawlessness will grow stronger. Peoples appearances will change, and it will be impossible to distinguish men from women due to there shamelessness in dress and style of hair. These people will be cruel and will be like wild animals because of the temptations of the Antichrist. There will be no respect for parents or elders, love will disappear, and Christian pastors, bishops, and priests will become vain men, completely failing to distinguish the right hand way from the left. At that time the morals and traditions of Christians and the Church will change. People will abandon modesty, and dissipation will reign. Falsehood and greed will attain great proportions, and woe to those who pile up treasures. Lust, adultery, homosexuality, secret deeds and murder will rule in society." - St. Nilus, 430 AD

  4. #24
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    You know everything about a Jewish TRIBE's "god" (a damn fuckn HUMAN), everything about Jewish morals, everything about Jewish imagination of "sin", everything about Jewish imagination of heaven and the afterlife, everything about the Jewish genealogy.

    I wished people would know just half as much about their OWN tribe's ancient history, gods, values and genealogy
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Hemerik's Avatar
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    What do all the non-Catholics here care about the Catholic Church-internal matter of the role of the Catholic priest, anyway? There seems to be a lot of resentment in some of the comments in this thread.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Lothringen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    everything about the Jewish genealogy.
    Hey dude, this sub-forum is "Catholicism & the Church of Rome"
    Do you know how St Matthew starts with:

    1 An account of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
    2 Abraham was the father of Isaac, and Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
    3 and Judah the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, and Perez the father of Hezron, and Hezron the father of Aram,
    4 and Aram the father of Aminadab, and Aminadab the father of Nahshon, and Nahshon the father of Salmon,
    5 and Salmon the father of Boaz by Rahab, and Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse,
    6 and Jesse the father of King David.
    And David was the father of Solomon by the wife of Uriah,
    7 and Solomon the father of Rehoboam, and Rehoboam the father of Abijah, and Abijah the father of Asaph,
    8 and Asaph the father of Jehoshaphat, and Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, and Joram the father of Uzziah,
    9 and Uzziah the father of Jotham, and Jotham the father of Ahaz, and Ahaz the father of Hezekiah, 10and Hezekiah the father of Manasseh, and Manasseh the father of Amos, and Amos the father of Josiah,
    11 and Josiah the father of Jechoniah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon.
    12 And after the deportation to Babylon: Jechoniah was the father of Salathiel, and Salathiel the father of Zerubbabel,
    13 and Zerubbabel the father of Abiud, and Abiud the father of Eliakim, and Eliakim the father of Azor,
    14 and Azor the father of Zadok, and Zadok the father of Achim, and Achim the father of Eliud,
    15 and Eliud the father of Eleazar, and Eleazar the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob,
    16 and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah.

    In fact this is just the male ascendency.
    According a legend from Brittany, St Marie is 50% celtic ! as her mother St Anne is coming from Plonévez-Porzay.
    She was to be married to an evil warlord when an angel help her escaping to Israël where she married to Joachim. She was often confused with goddess Dana as "Mamm gozh ar Vretoned" (grand-mother of Britons). More realisticly, she could have been an escape slave from a roman officer, maybe after a shipwreck, this could explain why Marie has so often a "western" look...and why the Celts (Brittany, Ireland) are so deeply christian.


    Sorry to be catholic and study the Bible as the "Panzer Cardinal" Ratzinger /Benedict XVI cleric told me every Sunday...

    If I have today proof that I have ancestor in Lorraine in the XVIIth century (even before Louis XIV took it from the Holy Empire), it is thanks to the Church registries of baptism and weeding.
    Nevertheless my blue eyes and the blond hair I had as a child (and that mine have too) have always been sufficient to guess that most of my ancestors are not coming from Mecca, Kyoto or Tombouctou...But I admit am not really sure about those who may have follow Gottfried von Bouillon to Jerusalem and could have brought to Lorraine some Judith or Esther bimbo out of there...

    Lothringen always proud to serve the Church and Empire as Deutsch Ritter !

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