View Poll Results: Scottish independence?

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  • Yes

    141 67.79%
  • No

    44 21.15%
  • Undecided

    23 11.06%
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Thread: Should Scotland Be Independent?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    Any particular reason?
    How many reasons do you want? The Highland Clearances is one that springs to mind. Death of a culture.

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    Has Scotland done so badly out of the Union in modern times? Personally, I think dissolving the United Kingdom as a multi-national, unitary state would be a mistake. Having said that, matters such as the West Lothian Question ought to be resolved in the interests of a better Union. An English parliament might well be a step in the right direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caoimhe View Post
    How many reasons do you want? The Highland Clearances is one that springs to mind. Death of a culture.
    One will do. Still waiting.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caoimhe View Post
    How many reasons do you want? The Highland Clearances is one that springs to mind. Death of a culture.
    It is important to remember that the monarchy was and is nominally British and has been since the Crowns were united in 1603 under, of course, a Scottish king. The Act of Union in 1707 moreover brought the parliaments of England and Scotland into accord. To lay the blame for the Clearances solely on English shoulders is therefore erroneous from the start. More to the point, the Anglo-Scot-Norman London elite that sought to push out the Highland communities and replace them with sheep for a quick profit is the same elite that seeks now to clear us out and turn our country into another limb of the globalist money machine. It is not now, and nor was it ever English oppressing Scottish: it is the powerful engineering the lives of the powerless.

    But Scots have denuded themselves of their power in the popular imagination and sneaked into the lineup of the aggrieved. The Lowland political class's stroke of genius was to associate southern Scots along ethnic lines with the Highlanders and, consequently, with the Irish. Not only does it exculpate them from unfavourably received episodes of British history in which they played a pivotal role (namely empire building and the slave trade -- and of course the Clearances), it enables them actively to assume the victim status of the Celts and from that standpoint to join in the sanctimonious punishing of the English. This subversive strain in the Scottish intellectual character (that being distinct from the manipulable masses who lap up the victim brew and vote accordingly) quite justifies an analogy with a certain other group which goes beyond the economic prowess they share.

    Although the romantic imagination paints the Clearances as the 'English' monarchy's reaction to Jacobitism, they were more accurately an outgrowth of the economic march of progress which brought an agricultural revolution to all Britain, and which affected the Scottish lowlands and England as well. In the Highlands, traditional croft farmers were pushed out in favour of Lowland investments in the land. Many of the brutal evictions were actually carried out by London-based Highland lairds bewitched by southern money. But I suppose people would prefer it if the persecutor in every instance looked like the Duke of Wellington and had the crofters' houses burnt down with a patrician nod of the head as he rode blithely away.

    "The Lowlander has inherited the hills and the tartan is a shroud"
    John Prebble, The Highland Clearances


    In England, many rural English peasants were similarly persecuted by Th'inglish when their subsistence farming was squeezed out by farmers' buying up of large tracts of communal land in which to grow cash crops. Over four thousand private Acts of Parliament were passed between 1755 and 1815 enabling the enclosure of more than five million acres of English land. (This is to illustrate the scale of agricultural change throughout Britain.)

    To the Rebellions. The Act of Proscription implemented after the '45 was designed to quell further insurrection and aid cultural assimilation of the Highlanders, not to decimate their communities. Indeed, claims about the banning of Gaelic and other emotive hogwash are simply not backed up anywhere in the text of the Act. Primarily, the Highlanders were disarmed and their dress forbidden. Once the Jacobite threat was well and truly put to rest, the Act was repealed; that was a mere thirty six years after it had been passed. Don't forget that there were several Stuartist uprisings financed in turns by the Spanish and the French -- which brings me to the next point. The major line of demarcation between Us and Them was exactly what it had been for centuries, indeed what had riven Stuart Britain throughout the preceding and eventually led to 1688 when James II and VII was booted out: religion.

    The Highlanders were by and large Roman Catholic; most of the Lowlanders and the English were staunch Protestants. Papists, especially wild, mountain ones, were a subversive entity that had to be suppressed. This sentiment was most fervent in the Calvinistic south of Scotland, from where the moneyed class hailed. These people had no love for their northern countrymen and set about snatching up their land and all the Highlanders could do, in the end, with the compounded circumstances of unaffordable rent prices, famine, and the general poverty that comes with an overpopulated region, was take the opportunities offered them and leave for the towns and for the colonies.

    There was no concerted English effort to get rid of the Highlanders, many factors went into what happened. To hold it against ordinary English people is not only incredibly stupid, but squalid too, as we are equally at the mercy of the same uncaring elite and always have been.

  5. #105
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    I voted undecided because I don't know if Scotland will end up importing more non-whites or less non-whites as a result of independence
    'you're all just visiting' -the good shepherd

  6. #106
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    I personally think that Scotland should remain in the United Kingdom because i feel that Scotland benefits from being a part of of the United Kingdom.I don't think Scotland will have much to go on if they were to become independent apart from a very good educational system(from what i've heard)and maybe some oil to sell.

    The SNP are also pro EU so i think it could be an ''out of the frying pan and into the fire'' situation for Scotland.

  7. #107
    Aka kentynet Northumbria's Avatar
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    Yes, they should be independent. The Celtic Nations are a drag on the English economy and the UK to some extent holds them back.
    The Celts bitch and moan about us when the most the English do is tell a few jokes or respond to Scottish propaganda.

    They are indepependant,they are a country in their own right with their own parliment.
    More than what England has got. England is an entity without any government of its own, it is basically ruled as UK-lite.

    If you mean should the English be free of the tax money we pour into Scotland every year to keep them on their feet,then my answer as a taxpayer on an economic level would be yes.....go to it bonny Scotland....Ireland went bankrupt in about five years so you should do it in about six.
    Both nations would see gains, Scotland would be able to pursue its own economic policies.

    Regarding them as part of the United Kingdom and ethnic brothers so to speak with close common ties i woud say that Scotland should remain with England.
    If the UK breaks up I think the British and Irish council should be strengthened into a co-operation organisation and we should remain close allies.


    I think England and Wales will probably stay together no matter what, the Welsh don't seem to want independence so long as the UK lets them govern themselves.

    England should seek better relations with Northern Europe and our brothers across the North Sea in the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark.

    Tommy, the only reason why Scotland are still under English rule is because Scotland has oil in the North Sea. The North Sea is Scottish Territory and if Scotland went independant, England wouldn't be able to touch it.

    Face it. England needs Scotland to keep on it's feet, not the other way around.
    Rubbish, England's economy is 90% of the UK economy. I did a post on another forum about it.

    then it is only right that England gets her own as well.
    I want this as a minimum. But Westminster is against it because England with a parliament would be able to challenge the authority of the UK parliament.

    We did quite fine without your "help" for ages. Today's world would be no different.
    Scotland was poor as were parts of Northern England and the Darien Scheme had failed. Accept it, you needed the English Empire at the time or faced decades of a miserable economy.

    Together we had an industrial revolution, charted and settled much of the world and prospered. Now the union has outlived its purpose and is holding us back in the modern world.

    It is England that needs Scottland today, not the opposite. And they should let them go.
    Why do so many people say this with so little knowledge of how the UK actually works? I think 90% of the economy Vs 8% speaks for itself.

    Pre 1707 England was an economic and military powerhouse whilst Scotland was completely bankrupt after the failed attempt to colonize Panama through the Darien Scheme. If it wasn't for the union and Mel Gibson Scotland would be about as famous as Kasakhstan (well before Borat)

    ... I wonder who has benefited more from the union?!
    Scotland benefited from the English Empire (which became the British Empire) and markets, England benefited from stability and hegemony in the islands; finally rid of any French back door into England.

    The whole entity of the UK and its predecessors were an anti-germanic and anti-european entity that served mainly plutocratic interests. Furthermore do I think that a german and an english state wouldn't have had the conflicts that the British Empire and the German Empire actually had. This is also important for the future.
    Agreed.

    Also, quit with the anti-Scottish crap. Don't forget that it's because of England that Scots don't speak Gaelic anymore.
    No it isn't, it's because the Scottish Lowlanders who spoke Scots (a dialect of English) took political power in the country and introduced Lowland ways into Highland and Island Scotland.

    Scots made it bad for other Scots, get it right.

    Would Germans want Bavaria to be independent? NO!
    Bavaria is German, Scotland is Scottish, England is English. If Scotland were English you'd have a point.

    Scotland is Britain's Bavaria.

    'Scotland' is not an old entity and any feelings of 'anti-Englishness' have been artificially stirred up.
    No, Britain is a fake entity which attempted to merge the different British identities together.

    The English people in this thread have only ever been talking about what's best for England.
    Don't you think the English have a right to independence too?

    The English people in this thread need to keep their noses out of Scotlands business....
    It's England's business because this is a union and most of us want you to leave. We shouldn't need to ask you, there should be a referendum in England as to whether we want independence as well.
    No matter what the Scots say, if we want out we should leave the union.

    The historical borders, mate, were different to what they are now. Scotland used to be much larger than England, until Longshanks decided to shorten it a bit and make England bigger.
    What are you on about? Have you ever seen a map? England has always been much bigger.

    Scotland once controlled Cumberland and England Lothian, they agreed the border at the Treaty of York - England got Cumberland and Scotland got Lothian (which included the "Scottish Borders"). All of these areas were settled by Anglo-Saxons.
    The only significant change was the English annexation of Berwick which some Scottish Nationalists claim was placed under English authority but never English territory.

    Scotland raided much of Northern England as did England in Southern Scotland, yet we never hear the English talking about the Scottish raids here.
    People built fortified houses the raiding got so bad.

    I want scotland to be independent, because I think England should be independent (+hopefully a republic ). But I dont buy this s**t about 'scotland's oil'. Sorry but it's not scotland's oil, it belongs to the united kingdom. if oil was found off the coast of yorkshire, it wouldn't be yorkshire's oil, it would belong to the whole of the UK.
    Most of the oil is in Scottish waters, although a lot of it is in Shetland and Orkney waters which were nicked from Denmark (they offered to pay the dowry, Scotland refused it and kept the islands).
    Most of the gas in the UK is in English waters - around 80% of the gas and 10% of the oil lie in English territory.

    Start taking back your Nuclear weapons, citizens of England, because once Scotland go independant, we won't be wanting them.
    Good. We can have them at Barrow, the place is full of Nuclear power stations and people needing the work anyway.

    I love how foreigners keep butting in with their absolute zero knowledge of the issue. It's also interesting that they always take the Scots' side too.
    Yeah, people always love to support the perceived underdog.

    Scotland is hurt that England doesn't notice it, but admitting that truth would be too bitter a pill to swallow.

  8. #108
    Senior Member Linden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northumbria View Post
    Yes, they should be independent. The Celtic Nations are a drag on the English economy and the UK to some extent holds them back.
    You do realise that more than 80% of the population of Scotland lives within the Germanic region of the nation? The whole idea that Scotland is Celtic is a Victorian concept. However, I do agree that Scotland deserves independence. I would like for Great Britain to resolve it's immigration problem as a single body before independence becomes a 'hot-topic', though.

  9. #109
    Aka kentynet Northumbria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linden View Post
    You do realise that more than 80% of the population of Scotland lives within the Germanic regions of the nation? The whole idea that Scotland is Celtic is a Victorian concept. However, I do agree that Scotland deserves independence. I would like for Great Britain to resolve it's immigration problem as a single body before independence becomes a 'hot-topic', though.
    Yes, most Scots have ancestry from both the Highlands and Lowlands.
    But I find "Celtic Nations" to be a convenient (if controversial) term.

  10. #110
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    Well, roll on the "Scotland will end up bankrupt" crap spouted by the English Government. These next few years should be really interesting.
    We'll be fine Independant. We're having talks with forming an Alliance with Norway and Sweden. If we can get it, we'll be golden.

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