View Poll Results: Scottish independence?

Voters
208. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    141 67.79%
  • No

    44 21.15%
  • Undecided

    23 11.06%
Page 10 of 17 FirstFirst ... 56789101112131415 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 170

Thread: Should Scotland Be Independent?

  1. #91
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    Thursday, May 3rd, 2012 @ 10:29 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Mainly Yorkshire
    Country
    England England
    State
    Yorkshire Yorkshire
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Gender
    Age
    33
    Politics
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,111
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    8 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by HyperboreanBlood View Post
    You are very WEIRD man, seriously, I will not even attempt to give a intellectual rebuttal to your sickening sentences!
    Probably intended as an insult, but I can't think of a better compliment, to be honest. Another thing that's weird is that when I checked this thread this morning, your post wasn't here. Now I check back and see you posted this 16 hours ago. A similar thing happened in this thread yesterday. How unusual.

    Oh yeah, I am Danish and Prussian...guess your mongoloid theory went to hell hamar! And I guess I will have to rely on Edgard to give me any intelligent debate on such things.
    Neither Danes nor Prussians have ancestry in 'far northern regions'. The only people in the world who have far northern ancestry are Inuits, Lapps and various Uralic Siberians.

  2. #92
    Moderator "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Sigurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Last Online
    1 Day Ago @ 12:16 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    Bavarii, Saxones, Suebi, Alamanni
    Subrace
    Borreby + Atlantonordoid
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Location
    Einöde in den Alpen
    Gender
    Age
    31
    Zodiac Sign
    Libra
    Family
    Engaged
    Politics
    Tradition & Homeland
    Religion
    Odinist
    Posts
    9,099
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    70
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    210
    Thanked in
    123 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Pictoria View Post
    Scotland is to Britain what Bavaria was to Germany.
    As an Austro-Bavarian I'd like you to clarify what you mean by this statement, please.

    What do these morons think will come of independance?! Oh, once the SNP have separated Scotland from the UK (and gifted it to the EU - as they have admitted they will) they'll boot out all the foreign races and mongrels! No they won't!
    Constitutional framework =/= public policy. Scottish independance wouldn't solve any more problems of everyday life than Austrian accession to Germany would, still it is a matter of identity; in fact, one'd find fairly soon that the main reasons why Scotland might be independent are for safeguarding of identity, whilst the main reason why they may stick within the Union are largely of an economic and/or political nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgard View Post
    "five years of Modern studies" fun times, sociology? Would this by the same sort of qualification that mad Gordon Brown a financial expert?
    Modern Studies was basically "propaganda studies" as far as I'm concerned and as far as I recall from the four years of Modern Studies I attended (slipping from a Standard Grade 1 to a Higher C in the process as I became more vocally critical of what was taught and put that through the examination paper as well).

    However, one also learnt about the constitutional and legal framework, and as someone who has sat not only through four years of Modern Studies, but also through four years of Law School, I will have to inform you that Astrid Runa is every bit correct in her mention of Scotland having very little say over its own matters. You also see that by looking at the small amount and nature/content of Acts of Scottish Parliament.

    Most Scottish matters are still legislated from Westminster, the main reason why the law in Scotland is so different from that in England & Wales is because the Scottish legal system was preserved and protected in the Acts of Union, so many Acts of Parliament will extend their scope to only England & Wales, or to only Scotland to take account of differing legal and indeed quasi-constitutional traditions.

    Really if Scotland can get the its voters to vote out of the union they are out the union. The English are not stopping you.
    Believe it or not, but Scotland is not able to declare unilateral independence. An Act of Independence passed by Westminster would, as far as I am aware, still be necessary. As such, the English would actually be able to stop the Scots, that being by blocking such a bill in the Commons.

    Ever heard of the west lothian question? Scottish MPs vote on matters that due to your parliament have no effect on their Scottish constituents. How is that fair?
    English MPs also vote on some matters that have ridiculously little effect on England, but pertain solely to Scotland and/or Northern Ireland: as per Section 28(7) of the Scotland Act 1998, stating that legislative powers of the SP do "[...]not affect the power of the Parliament of the United Kingdom to make laws for Scotland".

    The better question would be: Why was there only a Scottish Parliament and a Welsh resp. Northern Irish Assembly established, but not an English parliament? Well, take that back to devolution as a political move by Labour and a short-sighted one at that. Essentially, it can only be full membership of the Union or full independence, quasi-autonomy is --- as we have seen the last 14 years --- detrimental to all parties involved.

    Scotland also returns more MPs per head of population than anywhere in England so it is over represented in parliament. How is that fair?
    Where have you lived the past six or seven years, the moon? That used to be the case, however with your most recent reduction of constituencies from 659 to 646 --- that was Scotland's constituencies going down from 72 to 59 to deal with that issue, this reduction was in effect even ahead of the 2005 General Election.

    The UK spend an additional £2,600 per head of Scottish population over what Scotland provides in taxation. Is that fair?
    That is fair, considering the 1997 referendum had a majority who elected that a Scottish Parliament should have tax-altering powers up to a certain percentage different from that from the rest of the UK. This wasn't some Westminster or Holyrood snob deciding this, that was the population.

    No university fees for Scottish students but the English pay. How is that fair? More spending on health and education per head than in England. How is that fair.
    The education system as independent was protected in the Acts of Union. Anything else derives from such a tradition. Blame those 300 years ago for this one. As regards a greater spending on health & education, that is only positive.

    As goes for not having to pay tuition fees under certain circumstances (speedy completion of the degree, no changing of degrees after a certain time, etc.), that can also be deemed as nothing but positive: If we call ourselves Folkish, then enabling education to people from all classes of the folk is our prime interest (f. ex. as Hitler did with enabling every child free and compulsory schooling, a situation that persists).

    Is it a problem for you that the Scots have better health care? That the Scots have easier access to education? --- That can only be a sign of envy, but you shouldn't be cross at the Scots for this situation, you should be cross at your government and your system for this: Being envious of those who have it better is an ill advisor, the better advisor is to become active to enable to have a same standard for your own people that you've seen elsewhere.

    How are we stopping you from leaving the union? The SNP have a majority in the Scottish assembly. Vote for a referendum, hold the referendum then go. Simple.
    See what I said above. A referendum is but a referendum. We had referenda in Tyrol and Salzburg in 1919-20 in which more than 98% voted to join Germany; but because the terms of the post-WWI treaties forbid us, we couldn't.

    Holding a referendum is one step, but the other side also has to respect the outcome of the referendum and pass a law that allows for independence to make it effective. Technically the English could stop the Scots from leaving the Union simply by having more MPs in Westminster even if every single Scot voted for independence.
    -In kalte Schatten versunken... /Germaniens Volk erstarrt / Gefroren von Lügen / In denen die Welt verharrt-
    -Die alte Seele trauernd und verlassen / Verblassend in einer erklärbaren Welt / Schwebend in einem Dunst der Wehmut / Ein Schrei der nur unmerklich gellt-
    -Auch ich verspüre Demut / Vor dem alten Geiste der Ahnen / Wird es mir vergönnt sein / Gen Walhalla aufzufahren?-

    (Heimdalls Wacht, In kalte Schatten versunken, stanzas 4-6)

  3. #93
    Senior Member Edgard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Online
    Wednesday, August 22nd, 2012 @ 11:25 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Jute/Angle
    Subrace
    Angle/Jute
    Country
    England England
    State
    Wessex Wessex
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Education
    Politics
    conservative/pan Nordish
    Religion
    Mysticism/Christianity
    Posts
    992
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by HyperboreanBlood View Post
    And Edgard, I understand about the anger and tantrums, I do, but if you are the only Englishman prepared to "RISE UP" so to speak and stretch out his "longarm of the law" as well as admit to your nation's follies, then what does it say about your fellow countrymen?
    We are not all obsessed with money but the cost of living is high in proportion to wages so we have to work a lot. As for the English man rising up it wont need to by a physical struggle but we have to cut his bonds first and take of his blind fold. Most people only know what they are told by the news and in school and we have 60 years of propaganda to undo. To much Marxism.

    For this struggle we need all of the UK on board as otherwise we will not be able to change the political map. Sadly the Scots still cling to unfunded socialism as if it where a good thing which I guess it must seem when your not paying for it. Although you would think the Scots would see how it is damaging them and stopping them living up to their high potential.

    I really want to see Scotland a dynamic place that sees the danger we are all in and stands with us. They can do this in or out of the Union its up to them but they need to man up.

  4. #94
    Senior Member Edgard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Online
    Wednesday, August 22nd, 2012 @ 11:25 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Jute/Angle
    Subrace
    Angle/Jute
    Country
    England England
    State
    Wessex Wessex
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Education
    Politics
    conservative/pan Nordish
    Religion
    Mysticism/Christianity
    Posts
    992
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd View Post
    As an Austro-Bavarian I'd like you to clarify what you mean by this statement, please.



    Constitutional framework =/= public policy. Scottish independance wouldn't solve any more problems of everyday life than Austrian accession to Germany would, still it is a matter of identity; in fact, one'd find fairly soon that the main reasons why Scotland might be independent are for safeguarding of identity, whilst the main reason why they may stick within the Union are largely of an economic and/or political nature.



    Modern Studies was basically "propaganda studies" as far as I'm concerned and as far as I recall from the four years of Modern Studies I attended (slipping from a Standard Grade 1 to a Higher C in the process as I became more vocally critical of what was taught and put that through the examination paper as well).

    However, one also learnt about the constitutional and legal framework, and as someone who has sat not only through four years of Modern Studies, but also through four years of Law School, I will have to inform you that Astrid Runa is every bit correct in her mention of Scotland having very little say over its own matters. You also see that by looking at the small amount and nature/content of Acts of Scottish Parliament.

    Most Scottish matters are still legislated from Westminster, the main reason why the law in Scotland is so different from that in England & Wales is because the Scottish legal system was preserved and protected in the Acts of Union, so many Acts of Parliament will extend their scope to only England & Wales, or to only Scotland to take account of differing legal and indeed quasi-constitutional traditions.



    Believe it or not, but Scotland is not able to declare unilateral independence. An Act of Independence passed by Westminster would, as far as I am aware, still be necessary. As such, the English would actually be able to stop the Scots, that being by blocking such a bill in the Commons.



    English MPs also vote on some matters that have ridiculously little effect on England, but pertain solely to Scotland and/or Northern Ireland: as per Section 28(7) of the Scotland Act 1998, stating that legislative powers of the SP do "[...]not affect the power of the Parliament of the United Kingdom to make laws for Scotland".

    The better question would be: Why was there only a Scottish Parliament and a Welsh resp. Northern Irish Assembly established, but not an English parliament? Well, take that back to devolution as a political move by Labour and a short-sighted one at that. Essentially, it can only be full membership of the Union or full independence, quasi-autonomy is --- as we have seen the last 14 years --- detrimental to all parties involved.



    Where have you lived the past six or seven years, the moon? That used to be the case, however with your most recent reduction of constituencies from 659 to 646 --- that was Scotland's constituencies going down from 72 to 59 to deal with that issue, this reduction was in effect even ahead of the 2005 General Election.



    That is fair, considering the 1997 referendum had a majority who elected that a Scottish Parliament should have tax-altering powers up to a certain percentage different from that from the rest of the UK. This wasn't some Westminster or Holyrood snob deciding this, that was the population.



    The education system as independent was protected in the Acts of Union. Anything else derives from such a tradition. Blame those 300 years ago for this one. As regards a greater spending on health & education, that is only positive.

    As goes for not having to pay tuition fees under certain circumstances (speedy completion of the degree, no changing of degrees after a certain time, etc.), that can also be deemed as nothing but positive: If we call ourselves Folkish, then enabling education to people from all classes of the folk is our prime interest (f. ex. as Hitler did with enabling every child free and compulsory schooling, a situation that persists).

    Is it a problem for you that the Scots have better health care? That the Scots have easier access to education? --- That can only be a sign of envy, but you shouldn't be cross at the Scots for this situation, you should be cross at your government and your system for this: Being envious of those who have it better is an ill advisor, the better advisor is to become active to enable to have a same standard for your own people that you've seen elsewhere.



    See what I said above. A referendum is but a referendum. We had referenda in Tyrol and Salzburg in 1919-20 in which more than 98% voted to join Germany; but because the terms of the post-WWI treaties forbid us, we couldn't.

    Holding a referendum is one step, but the other side also has to respect the outcome of the referendum and pass a law that allows for independence to make it effective. Technically the English could stop the Scots from leaving the Union simply by having more MPs in Westminster even if every single Scot voted for independence.
    Good rebuttal however I still disagree. I am well aware of this as power devolved is still power from parliament as the representative of the Queen and so ultimately they could overall anything done in any other body in the UK or Europe that effects any matter within the UK and maybe beyond in some cases due to the Queens unique position. However if Scotland where to cast a vote for independence it is generally accepted that no UK government could politically resist them as this would be unacceptable to the UK electorate and in opposition to the will of the people. Also their is president for plebiscites on independence being honoured even on matters of sovereignty. Take New Zealand as an example. Given precedent it would be unprecedented to go against the will of the Scotis people if a referendum demanded independence although possibly if the turn out was very low this could be argued over. I don't think most English MPs would stand to see Scotland cheated like this even if that was the party line the whips wanted them to follow.

    I still think there are to many Scottish MPs per head of population after the 2005 reform. Scotland and Wales have on average 5,000 fewer voters per constituency than England. I took the figures from this.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7096501.ece

    As for English voting although there may be times English MPs vote on exclusiveness Scottish issues I cant recall any. Do you have examples?

    As for tuition fees the point is that the Scots get more per head of population spent on them out of central UK funds before additional assembly tax adjustments so its still a case of us paying for it.

    http://www.thecep.org.uk/in-depth/en...disadvantaged/

    I am not against English tuition feels although I would prefer less people going to university and no feels. It was New Labours mad target of 50% educated to university level that left such a large gap in funding.


    As for a English parliament I doubt they would give us one as it would be a direct, overwhelming and legitimate challenge to the UK parliament on almost any issue you could think of.

  5. #95
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    Thursday, May 3rd, 2012 @ 10:29 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Mainly Yorkshire
    Country
    England England
    State
    Yorkshire Yorkshire
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Gender
    Age
    33
    Politics
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,111
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    8 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Edgard View Post
    We are not all obsessed with money but the cost of living is high in proportion to wages so we have to work a lot. As for the English man rising up it wont need to by a physical struggle but we have to cut his bonds first and take of his blind fold. Most people only know what they are told by the news and in school and we have 60 years of propaganda to undo. To much Marxism.

    For this struggle we need all of the UK on board as otherwise we will not be able to change the political map. Sadly the Scots still cling to unfunded socialism as if it where a good thing which I guess it must seem when your not paying for it. Although you would think the Scots would see how it is damaging them and stopping them living up to their high potential.

    I really want to see Scotland a dynamic place that sees the danger we are all in and stands with us. They can do this in or out of the Union its up to them but they need to man up.
    As I originally suspected -- and his new avatar confirms -- he just ripped his opinion of the English from a few aphorisms he read in Beyond Good and Evil. He clearly has only second-hand knowledge, if it can even be called knowledge, on Britain. He doesn't even know the difference between 'British' and 'English'. By wasting time seriously trying to show he's wrong, you're crediting him far more than he deserves, acting as though his opinion matters -- which obviously it doesn't. Treating him as an equal will only encourage him to believe he's an equal, which is unfair, because when this illusion inevitably breaks, unable to sustain his life's many failings, a little part of him will die inside and it'll be partly your fault.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Edgard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Online
    Wednesday, August 22nd, 2012 @ 11:25 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Jute/Angle
    Subrace
    Angle/Jute
    Country
    England England
    State
    Wessex Wessex
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    Education
    Politics
    conservative/pan Nordish
    Religion
    Mysticism/Christianity
    Posts
    992
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    As I originally suspected -- and his new avatar confirms -- he just ripped his opinion of the English from a few aphorisms he read in Beyond Good and Evil. He clearly has only second-hand knowledge, if it can even be called knowledge, on Britain. He doesn't even know the difference between 'British' and 'English'. By wasting time seriously trying to show he's wrong, you're crediting him far more than he deserves, acting as though his opinion matters -- which obviously it doesn't. Treating him as an equal will only encourage him to believe he's an equal, which is unfair, because when this illusion inevitably breaks, unable to sustain his life's many failings, a little part of him will die inside and it'll be partly your fault.
    Lol, he is some what ill informed. Almost like an American talking about Northern Ireland.

    As you said its not an equal discussion, equality is just an illusion for people who want to be fooled. Still I would rather educate than ignore and alienate as Germanic peoples need to get along and forge a common agenda.

    I have to say the fact people on this forum have seen through the equality illusion is one of the things I like about it most.

  7. #97
    Senior Member Angus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Online
    Saturday, April 8th, 2017 @ 10:27 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Germanic
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Politics
    Moderate
    Religion
    Folkish Heathen
    Posts
    747
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    Hamar and HyperboreanBlood, the last few pages have been nothing more than a pissing contest between the two of you. The off topic posts have been deleted. In the future, please stick to the topic of the thread.

    Thanks.

  8. #98
    Senior Member Welfing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Online
    Saturday, August 25th, 2012 @ 03:58 PM
    Ethnicity
    Deutscher
    Ancestry
    Westfalen
    Subrace
    Ario-Fale
    Country
    German Empire German Empire
    State
    Hannover Hannover
    Location
    Gartow/Elbe DAN
    Gender
    Age
    63
    Family
    ledig
    Occupation
    Reitlehrer
    Politics
    naturbezogen
    Religion
    naturgläubig
    Posts
    494
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Today, in time of The System, I must say, that Scotland The Brave has to be a free and independent kingdom.
    But I know - and you all should know - that all white people of all the world are comming from one white origin folk, which incloudes all Celtic, all Germanic and all Baltic folks of all the world.
    This - Our white origin folk is a separate species of human being, of mankind and the oliest folk in of this onliest white species all over the world.
    We are living in the end-time! We are the generation, who takes part in the last chapter of the apokalypse, which will conduct together all parts of our white origin folk.
    We have to found an New Rich (Reich/Empire) for all parts of our white origin folk, which has been send in this word to bring the Light of GOD all over the people here.
    This Rich will be the rear Thousend-Years-Rich of the Golden Age.
    Therefore we have to fight, to blood, to die and to live together all over the time in all future.

    I beg your pardon for my bad english, coming from school-time more than 35 years ago.
    Thank you!

    WELFING
    http://thuletempel.org/wiki/images/5/56/Tt_sonne.jpg

    Allzeit wahrhaftig, treu und tapfer

    GOTT MIT UNS FÜR VOLK UND REICH

  9. #99
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Last Online
    Saturday, May 12th, 2012 @ 02:08 AM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Country
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    Gender
    Posts
    68
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Schooneveld View Post
    Why? England and Scotland share great history together and need each other in this troubled world. So why not try a federal or confederal state first before rushing into secession?
    Speak to 5 million Scots and ask what they think. At best, they dislike the English and I can't say I blame them.

  10. #100
    Account Inactive
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last Online
    Thursday, May 3rd, 2012 @ 10:29 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Mainly Yorkshire
    Country
    England England
    State
    Yorkshire Yorkshire
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Gender
    Age
    33
    Politics
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,111
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8
    Thanked in
    8 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Caoimhe View Post
    Speak to 5 million Scots and ask what they think. At best, they dislike the English and I can't say I blame them.
    Any particular reason?

Page 10 of 17 FirstFirst ... 56789101112131415 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Financially Independent Women
    By Dagna in forum Men, Women, & Relationships
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Wednesday, November 4th, 2009, 09:42 AM
  2. Scotland 'independent in 10 years' ???
    By Carl in forum Scotland
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Wednesday, November 14th, 2007, 07:03 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: Saturday, August 18th, 2007, 02:14 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •