Page 53 of 55 FirstFirst ... 3434849505152535455 LastLast
Results 521 to 530 of 541

Thread: Why Are the Irish Not Considered Germanic/Nordic?

  1. #521
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Last Online
    Sunday, November 12th, 2017 @ 07:54 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Country
    Germany Germany
    State
    Silesia Silesia
    Gender
    Posts
    853
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    5 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    (Almost)All European ethnicities are actually made up of three principal components, they differ only in their quantities.
    'Three principal components' means three different races.

    And these three different races, I have set out in my above post.

    They are
    the (1) black-haired, alias 'atlantids',
    the (2) red haired, alias 'not-yet-labelled', I suggest the term: 'centralids'
    the (3) blond haired, alias 'nordids'.

  2. #522
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Last Online
    Thursday, September 7th, 2017 @ 01:29 AM
    Ethnicity
    Mixed Germanic and Celtic
    Ancestry
    British Isles & Scandinavia
    Subrace
    Borreby x Nordic
    Country
    Other Other
    Location
    Aqua
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Gondolier
    Posts
    2,196
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    20
    Thanked in
    20 Posts
    Or WHG is UP Survivor, EEF is Mediterranean and the Yamnaya stands for Nordic (and Nordic-likes).

  3. #523
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Online
    7 Hours Ago @ 10:23 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    German
    Subrace
    Keltic Nordid-CM
    Gender
    Religion
    Religion of the Blood
    Posts
    1,597
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    362
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    549
    Thanked in
    237 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Where do Guanches fit in those component graphs? There is plenty Guanche aDNA.
    I've never seen Guanche admixture plots, to be honest. I somehow doubt there are any for this type of admixture.
    Most studies in regards to the Canary Islands concern themselves with European and Guanche admixture to the modern population.

    By Y-DNA, for what it's worth, the Guanches were mostly Northern African E-M78 and E-M81, with curiously a minor (~10%) contribution of R1b1b2(M269). Source

    Quote Originally Posted by Spjabork View Post
    'Three principal components' means three different races.

    And these three different races, I have set out in my above post.

    They are
    the (1) black-haired, alias 'atlantids',
    the (2) red haired, alias 'not-yet-labelled', I suggest the term: 'centralids'
    the (3) blond haired, alias 'nordids'.
    We're speaking about populations, not (sub-races) and they're hardly ever of a single type after their earliest beginnings. The mixing of components I was speaking about already happened in Central Europe anyway. Looking at genetics, Britain certainly wasn't settled in the way you're suggesting.

    We also don't know the hair colour of almost all the skeletons we found or it isn’t tested so this is merely wild guessing. Real black hair is rare even in Ireland and Wales in any case, unless you actually meant brown hair. Which is conspicuously absent from your „scheme“.
    Neither was there ever a red haired people numerous enough to somehow conquer all of Britain and bring Celtic culture with it.

    As for the Yamna, they might have well brought blonde hair with them but the evidence is conflicting. This study, for example, states, that the inhabitants of the relevant region at that time were still (overwhelmingly) dark eyed and dark haired and that selection for light hair and eyes started only afterwards.
    Blonde hair – or only some of it – could have also originated among the WHG of Scandinavia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Or WHG is UP Survivor, EEF is Mediterranean and the Yamnaya stands for Nordic (and Nordic-likes).
    That would be convenient, indeed and rehabilitate all of the physical anthropologists of old but see the above.
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


  4. #524
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Last Online
    Sunday, November 12th, 2017 @ 07:54 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Country
    Germany Germany
    State
    Silesia Silesia
    Gender
    Posts
    853
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    5 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard View Post
    Well, is it strange for an American negro to identify as African?
    Yes it is! Because the negro came to America, albeit against his will, thus he was separated from his gound.

    An 'american negro' -- I am sorry to tell him this -- is hanging in the air, and belonging to nowhere. The slaves who were liberated and sent back to 'Liberia', what did they do there? Today, Liberia is the most chaotic african state, even more messed up as any other.

    If my grandfather had been taken by the bolshevik russians to siberia, as 'prisoner of war' (alias a slave), it would not have made him a 'russian'. Though it would have him effectively separated, and thus alianated from his ground.

    The Russland-Deutsche, when they 'return' to the land of their ancestors, they are strangers here, they can not come along with the Germans. I can not come along with them. They speak German with (often) heavy russian accent, and their whole thinking is 100% russified.

    So, it really would be strange to the utmost, if he would 'identify' today as 'russian'.

    But he also, in a way, would be no German anymore, having lived most of his life away from Germany.

    It is not for nothing that we speak of Blut und Boden ('bloed en aarde').

    Though, if a German, forcefully or not, lived for a long time away from his home, he will take on some features of his new habitat.

    A Russland-Deutscher is not the same as a German anymore.

    And -- to answer your question -- a negro, having been kidnapped to America against his will, having lived in America most of his life, is no longer an African.

    It needs an effort of the will to return, to reintegrate. It needs a big effort.

    You know, the German bolsheviks, who lived in Russia for ten years or more, when they returned to Germany in May 1945, because they were ordered by Stalin to return, they were alianated to their own folk, they were no Germans anymore, they were russified Germans, brainwashed and queered.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard View Post
    The celtic identity framework has indeed often been stimulated as the result of a mere romantic yearning to authenticity and identity.
    We have the same problem in Germany. There was a Sorabian Slav, Herbert Gruhl, he was born in 1921. He wrote in his memoirs: "We, though [in 1940] wanted to be Germans!" That means: everything that was written about Sorbs after WWII is due to the Germans having lost the war. If the Germans had won WWII, today the Sorbian Slavs would not exist. But as Germany lost the war, today the Sorbs even got airing time on German local TV.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bernhard View Post
    But I wouldn't say a highland Scotsman or an Irishman looses his claim to celtic identity because he's lost his celtic tongue.
    You wouldn't say, but I would.

    And let me add this: that the Germans have lost the war, is due to -- among many other things -- the 'resistance' of the Englishmen. So, that the Englishmen today have problems with the 'Scottish' and the Irish, and that the Germans today have problems with the 'Sorbs', En dat de Vlaamse problemen hebben met de Walen, is due to one and the same cause.

  5. #525
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Last Online
    Thursday, September 7th, 2017 @ 01:29 AM
    Ethnicity
    Mixed Germanic and Celtic
    Ancestry
    British Isles & Scandinavia
    Subrace
    Borreby x Nordic
    Country
    Other Other
    Location
    Aqua
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Gondolier
    Posts
    2,196
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    20
    Thanked in
    20 Posts
    I honestly don't see the problem with Celts and Sorbs. But as regards the Belgian question: would the French (Langue d'Oil) be Germanic were they racially the same but spoke Old Franconian to this day? What about the Goths in Crimea so mixed with Greeks and such?

    Language is a poor basis for ethnicity or identity with a state. Think of Switzerland.

  6. #526
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Last Online
    Sunday, November 12th, 2017 @ 07:54 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Country
    Germany Germany
    State
    Silesia Silesia
    Gender
    Posts
    853
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    5 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    I honestly don't see the problem with Celts and Sorbs.
    Each and everthing one can see from three sides, from one's own side, from the opposite side, and from above. If you see things from above, then there will be hardly ever any problem for you. When you see things from the opposite, that is from the opponent's side, then you are well on the way of getting sick, at first just mentally, yet in the end even physically, because your will to life will fade. If you see things from your own side, then you see the problem, be it big or small. Only this is the healthy and 'wholesome' view, which only can ensure your further mere existence.

    The 'Celts' and the Sorbs are small problems at the moment, yet as long as these problems exist, they can grow. And already now they indicate that the Germanics no longer go forward, but draw back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    But as regards the Belgian question: would the French (Langue d'Oil) be Germanic were they racially the same but spoke Old Franconian to this day?
    They would racially be the same, by and large. It was really a question of language policy. The bishops of Liege were strongly anti-Germanic, the archbishops of Trier were moderately pro-Germanic, the result you can today compare on a map.

    A great lot of Germanic blood oozed away in that sandy soil called 'Gallia'. For at least 100 years the Frankish was competing with the Galloroman, but the Franks themselves, by an entirely mistaken policy, caused by a wrong understanding of their own being, cut off their own chances from the start. This caused the (third) Germanic tauma, from which the Germans, and all Germanics, still suffer up to this day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    What about the Goths in Crimea so mixed with Greeks and such?
    The Goths in the Crimea were doomend once the bulk of their folk had left. What stayed behind were the sick & tired, the couch potatoes. Yet that even they could assert themselves for 1000 years shows, how much living power once must have been in that folk. The history of the Goths, and of the Wandals is the greatest epos of the whole mankind. But it's a warning for us. It warns us that it is not enough, that it will not suffice just to have living power, just to be strong, nay, you also must have insight, you also must be smart.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Language is a poor basis for ethnicity or identity with a state.
    On the contrary. When nature turns into culture, that is biology turns into history, language becomes decisive. Of course the population of each 'state' has a racial composition. But what holds any state together is not the race, but the language of its inhabitants. In the ideal case, from a preservationist (that is a farsighted, smart) point of view, one must see to it, that the race becomes aware of itself, and takes good care of its 'corresponding', appropriate, so to speak matching language.
    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    Think of Switzerland.
    Switzerland is a small copy of the Holy Roman Empire. The German Swiss did on a small scale, what all the Germans in the HRR should have done on a large scale, namely to subdue the Romans with a hard hand at once, and to hold them short all the way thereafter. The multicultural Swiss of today is a product of the last 200 years. Before 1800, it had not been so.

  7. #527
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Last Online
    Sunday, November 12th, 2017 @ 07:54 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Country
    Germany Germany
    State
    Silesia Silesia
    Gender
    Posts
    853
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5
    Thanked in
    5 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    We're speaking about populations, not (sub-races) and they're hardly ever of a single type after their earliest beginnings. The mixing of components I was speaking about already happened in Central Europe anyway. Looking at genetics, Britain certainly wasn't settled in the way you're suggesting.
    There is a German fairy tale movie. The future bride of the king asks her maids why the king was not married since long?

    The maids tell her, that the king wanted to get married already three times.

    The first bride had black hair, she was beautiful as the night, yet she was quarrelsome, noisy, and gossipy. So the king sent her away three days before wedding.

    The second bride had blond hair, she was beautiful like the young day, yet she was squandering money, gold, and jewelry, she would have made the king poor. So the king sent her away two days before wedding.

    The third bride had red hair that burned like fire, yet under her, the soup in the pot also got burnt, because she did not allow to put fat into it. She was so tight-fisted, they all would have starved under her. So, the king sent her away one day before wedding.

    The three types are arranged and ranked according to their statistical frequency. What is less frequent, is more pecious.

    It is a German fairy tale, so it depicts the situation in Germany. On the island of Britain, as I said, the three types amount to about one third each. On the island of Ireland, the blond would be most precious.

  8. #528
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Last Online
    Monday, September 3rd, 2018 @ 04:59 AM
    Ethnicity
    Germanic
    Ancestry
    Netherlands, Belgium
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Utah Utah
    Location
    Mid-West
    Gender
    Family
    Happy
    Occupation
    Teacher
    Politics
    Liberal
    Religion
    Christian
    Posts
    154
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7
    Thanked in
    6 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Fionn View Post
    I find it strange that countries such as France and Finland are considered to be Germanic on this site, but Ireland is not. I'm not trying to bash this site or anything in this post, simply trying to have an intelligent debate/discussion about this subject.

    Let me begin with France which is under the "Western Germanic" section. The vast majority of French people speak a Romance language. France does have a minority of German speaking people, about 1,440,000 people (3.15% of population). But there are almost as many German speakers in France as there are Arab speakers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France Yes, the Franks did settle certain areas of France, but one cannot ignore the presence of Gallic and Latin influences as well. But still the whole country is considered Germanic.

    Finland is under the "Northern Germanic" section. People from Finland are primarily Finno-Ugric and speak Uralic languages. Finland is of course adjacent to Sweden, but there was not much contact between the two groups in the Viking Age except for in the Åland Islands. Is it their high perecentage of blonde and blue-eyed people? Well through deductive reasoning we can clearly see that blonde hair and blue eyes is not just a Germanic trait. So how is it that Finland can be Germanic?

    Now to start on Ireland.

    Irish people primarily speak a Germanic language:




    Vikings settled in Ireland and brought much trade and cultural exchange:


    Read at your own leisure:
    http://www.ncte.ie/viking/listt.htm
    http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/ihm/ire900.htm

    Anglo-Normans invaded Ireland and influenced it greatly:

    http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/..._invasion.html

    What else can be said about Ireland other than that they have been more or less assimilated into Germanic ways? Modern Ireland has almost become a reflection of Britain through many centuries of British dominance and rule. Now many of you would probably say that Ireland is very "pure" of outside influence and so on, but you cannot ignore these Germanic groups and their contributions to what Ireland has become. Tell me what you think of this matter.
    Primarily, Germanic does not mean Nordid/Nordic. Some Germanic are Nordid, but not all of them. Ireland is prevalently a Celtic people with some Germanic admixture, though the admixture is lower than with other British groups especially those of England ('Angle-land'). Ireland is part of what we call the Celtic nations. Yes Germanic influence through the English has impacted a lot Ireland culturally. Nevertheless Ireland is a Northern European country. Ireland has one highest percentage for pure blue eyes as well as red hair and the highest for truly pale skin in the world.
    Ratio of pure blue eyes only in various European nations:
    Irish regions:
    Connacht = 53%
    Leinster = 52%
    Munster = 50%
    Ulster = 50%
    British regions:
    Southeast Scotland = 57%
    Central England = 50%
    Yorkshires (England), Northwest & Southwest Scotland = 49%
    Northeast & Central Scotland = 48%
    Northeast England = 47%
    Wales = 45%
    Southeast England = 44%
    East England = 41%
    Southwest England = 35%
    in comparison to the various European countries, Ireland is a lot closer to the Northern European group or Nordid than any other. The most Germanic parts of Britain are usually less blue-eyed than Ireland with the exception of Central England. Actually the ratio of pure blue eyes in Germany as a whole is less than in Ireland.
    Denmark (Germanic) = 50.9%
    Germany (Germanic) = 33.3%
    Belgium (Germanic&Celto-Latin) =28.9%
    Switzerland (Germanic&Celto-Latin&Latin) = 28%
    France = 20.2%
    Spain = 11.75%
    Italy = 10.3%

  9. #529
    Member Indo-European's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Last Online
    Sunday, January 7th, 2018 @ 05:26 PM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-Celtic/Indo-European
    Ancestry
    Irish/Scottish/German
    Subrace
    Keltic-Nordid
    Y-DNA
    R1b-L21
    mtDNA
    J1C5C1
    Country
    Vinland Vinland
    State
    Illinois Illinois
    Gender
    Age
    30
    Politics
    Nationalism/Traditionalism
    Religion
    Native European Spirituality
    Posts
    19
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    0
    Thanked in
    0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Germaniathane View Post
    Primarily, Germanic does not mean Nordid/Nordic. Some Germanic are Nordid, but not all of them. Ireland is prevalently a Celtic people with some Germanic admixture, though the admixture is lower than with other British groups especially those of England ('Angle-land'). Ireland is part of what we call the Celtic nations. Yes Germanic influence through the English has impacted a lot Ireland culturally. Nevertheless Ireland is a Northern European country. Ireland has one highest percentage for pure blue eyes as well as red hair and the highest for truly pale skin in the world.
    Ratio of pure blue eyes only in various European nations:
    Irish regions:
    Connacht = 53%
    Leinster = 52%
    Munster = 50%
    Ulster = 50%
    British regions:
    Southeast Scotland = 57%
    Central England = 50%
    Yorkshires (England), Northwest & Southwest Scotland = 49%
    Northeast & Central Scotland = 48%
    Northeast England = 47%
    Wales = 45%
    Southeast England = 44%
    East England = 41%
    Southwest England = 35%
    in comparison to the various European countries, Ireland is a lot closer to the Northern European group or Nordid than any other. The most Germanic parts of Britain are usually less blue-eyed than Ireland with the exception of Central England. Actually the ratio of pure blue eyes in Germany as a whole is less than in Ireland.
    Denmark (Germanic) = 50.9%
    Germany (Germanic) = 33.3%
    Belgium (Germanic&Celto-Latin) =28.9%
    Switzerland (Germanic&Celto-Latin&Latin) = 28%
    France = 20.2%
    Spain = 11.75%
    Italy = 10.3%
    Good post. I found a survey done in 2013 comparing hair and eye colors for Ireland, Poland, and Greece.

    Here's the link: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...72497312001810

    Summary of hair/eye color:
    46.6% of Irish fell into Dark Brown hair category.
    37.5% of Irish fell into Blonde/Dark blonde/Light brown hair category.
    11.5% of Irish fell into Red/Red blonde/Red brown/Auburn hair category.
    4.4% of Irish fell into Black hair category.

    50.7% of Irish surveyed had blue eyes.
    26.6% of Irish surveyed had green or intermediate eyes (I'm assuming that means light-mixed)
    22.7% of Irish surveyed had brown eyes (though to me that sounds a little high)

    So it looks like the findings about Irish eye color are pretty consistent with what you posted. I could break down the Polish and Greek results, but overall the Poles are more blonde but not as light eyed as the Irish. However the Greek hair results don't make any sense to me. It says 47% of Greeks have blonde/dark blonde/light brown hair, 50.4% dark brown/black, 2.5% brown red/auburn. I don't see how that can be accurate on the percentage of blonde/light brown shades. Although eye color seemed right in that over 3/4 had brown eyes.

    The Irish (and Britons) are certainly Northern European and closely related to other North European peoples who are considered Germanic (continental Germanics and Scandinavians). So in that sense I guess you could consider them Nordic or Nordish. Though it makes sense to me why the Irish or Britons wouldn't be considered Nordic proper as that term to me means Scandinavian.

  10. #530
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Online
    7 Hours Ago @ 10:23 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Ancestry
    German
    Subrace
    Keltic Nordid-CM
    Gender
    Religion
    Religion of the Blood
    Posts
    1,597
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    362
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    549
    Thanked in
    237 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Indo-European View Post
    22.7% of Irish surveyed had brown eyes (though to me that sounds a little high)
    If this indeed means pure brown eyes, it's robably somewhat high, yes. But likely only by 5-10 %.
    The difference could lie in differing colour perception in different populations because the percentages in that study are based on self-reported pigmentation.
    This is also the case with the next point:

    However the Greek hair results don't make any sense to me. It says 47% of Greeks have blonde/dark blonde/light brown hair, 50.4% dark brown/black, 2.5% brown red/auburn. I don't see how that can be accurate on the percentage of blonde/light brown shades. Although eye color seemed right in that over 3/4 had brown eyes.
    By northern European standards, Greeks are a dark population. But you have to keep in mind, that they themselves might perceive pigmentation differently.
    If you're mostly surrounded by people with black or very dark brown hair and you yourself happen to have medium brown(by northern European standards) hair, you're more likely to perceive and describe yourself as light brown or even dark blonde haired by the standards of your own people. Simply because few properly blond/fair people are around.
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 162
    Last Post: 1 Week Ago, 01:02 AM
  2. The Germanic Irish
    By TheHeathenSociety in forum Germanic Diaspora, Enclaves, & Influences
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Tuesday, August 21st, 2012, 01:49 PM
  3. What are considered dominant Germanic Haplogroups?
    By BMWkid in forum Population Genetics
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: Tuesday, May 1st, 2012, 03:39 AM
  4. Is Wavy or Curly Hair Considered Non-Germanic?
    By tisme in forum Physical Anthropology
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: Wednesday, February 22nd, 2012, 08:02 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •