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Thread: Why Are the Irish Not Considered Germanic/Nordic?

  1. #31
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    Sv: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Well if the Finns have a subforum, I really think that the Irish also should have one.

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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    So is this the final verdict that we have come to? If so, I think it's a rather fair deal. However, there is still that Germanic influence on Ireland, and I daresay there is heck of a lot more than the ditched France or Finland ever had. Is there still a chance that Irish and people of Irish descent could have a subforum to discuss the Germanic influences and contributions to their culture, langauge, history and country? If there was one I think it would do more good than harm.

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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryggvi
    Thanks.

    Not at the moment. Maybe later on, if we ever restructure something. In the meantime, such influences can be discussed in the Germanic root forums.
    You're very welcome and thank you, sir.

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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryggvi
    Having read the whole thread, I have to admit that these are actually very good thoughts. Consequently, we dumped Finland and France. They are only creating never-ending confusion. Germanic influences upon these countries can be discussed in the Germanic root forums.

    We keep the Scots, though. The Scots language is clearly Germanic (Scots is to English what Dutch is to German) and they have significant Germanic ancestry.

    If we exclude the Scots based on their Briton heritage, we could as well exclude the English, but as Milesian said, some degree of moderation and restraint is necessary to prevent the whole system from collapsing into the realms of fantasy.

    Wise words.
    You lost me at dumping France; to be Frank it creates a slippery-slope all its own. 'When' Germany (proper) is over-run linguistically, culturally, and spiritually, will it, too, be relegated to the Germanic root forums? It is very much its own reductio ad absurdum; and I think it demonstrative that it is the disadvantageous erasure of a drawn Germanic line.
    The feudal system of the European Middle Ages evolved from Charlemagne's military organization and the way he imposed a central authority on his empire. At his direction, the Frankish (germanic Kingship) capital at Aachen became a cultural center marking the first revival of the arts since the fall of Rome. Beginning in a time when most of the people of Europe were illiterate and had little mathematics, he collected learned men from inside and outside his empire and set up schools for priests, administrators, and Frankish nobles. One result of this programe was the development of a clear and efficient style of handwriting that became the model for today's germanic printed letters. Another was the preservation of Latin learning that influenced the culture and languages of later Europe, including all of the countries that have arbitrarily, but not capriciously, been retained as Germanic under your rubric. French, Spanish, and Italian all evolved from the Latin thus preserved. The enduring legacy of the Franks is the nation of France.

    I suppose I could go on; but, in short, I think that the dumping of France, because Finland cannot quantitatively, or qualitatively, be argued to be Germanic in the same manner as France is unproductive with respect to future aims; and not a little baffling. There is a geographical point (amongst others) at which 'Germanic' is a vaccuous term. It has not been adequately argued, or really even demonstrated, that that where you have drawn that line is in accord with the facts: historically, culturally, or spriritually.

    If France is not "Germanic"--neither is Canada.

    etc.
    "...The moral man is a lower species than the immoral, a weaker species; indeed - he is a type in regard to morality, but not a type in himself; a copy...the measure of his value lies outside him. ... I assess the power of a will by how much resistance, pain, torture it endures and knows how to turn to its advantage; I do not account the evil and painful character of existence a reproach to it, but hope rather that it will one day be more evil and painful than hitherto..." (Nietzsche)

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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    vahalla isn't a celtic creation.

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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    France is much more Celtic than Germanic, anyway. I'm quite fed up with Frenchmen who think they are nothing but Germanic and phantasm on the Nordic race all the time... I pitty them, they're so boring. Those are not different from any rootless whiggers.

    Most of the time, I think we French are apart; we're neither completely Romance, nor completely Celtic, so let alone completely Germanic. It's not that easy. What's sure, it's that we are different from others and it's good like that. I enjoy my difference, that's the best way I've to piss off the System.
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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryggvi
    The modern Frenchmen are not a Germanic nation to the same degree as, let's say, the Germans, the English, the Icelanders. Nearly all Frenchmen would not consider themselves Germanics.

    Very true. My argument is not of issues pertaining to modernity (the antogonistic relationship between modern France and modern Germany is a relatively recent dynamic of shared angst: e.g. neither wishes to acknowledge common surname roots (e.g. "Mosier") out of the abjectly puerile denial of a shared ancestry; with brobdingnagian disparity between respective modern cultures.

    "Canada" is listed under "Germanic Settlements." All it needs to qualify for this is that there is a (not rather marginal) bunch of Germanics that settled there. This holds true for Canada.
    So then I guess the question would be whether or not France has been dumped all together; or is now relegated to "Germanic Settlements"--which would be an historical misnomer.

    Incidentally, I've been to Scotland 11 times; and never once, in any discussion on the matter (and I always instigate them!) have I heard a single scot identify themselves as Germanic either.

    At any rate, its clear that this is not open for discussion as the salient points of my post have been past over.

    Cordially,
    SUUT
    Last edited by SuuT; Sunday, June 4th, 2006 at 03:47 AM. Reason: added forgotten pertinent point
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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Well, if those French, Finnish and Irish really want so much a forum for them, I think if you ever create them so the best solution would be to make a forum called somewhat like "Countries with a lot of Germanic Influence". My english is not very good, but that's the idea, I bet you can find a better phrase for that like maybe "Germanic Influenced Countries" I don't know..
    We already have Germanic "Germanic Settlements" so we could have "Countries with a lot of Germanic Influence"

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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zagas

    So and Germany isn't one of the most purest too? :s
    Sweden and Norway have a lot of Sami mix specially in the North of those countries while Germany has much less sami mix.
    It really depends on what things are considered as Germanic Ideal... And I suppose there is many answers for that, and none of them is the wrong one.

    Racially Sweden is often referred as purest Nordid, even though many Swedes seem to be Baltid influenced (somewhat softer features, which is attractive in my eyes). Germany of course has a lot of Nordids also, but my impression of Germany is Alpinid. Ok, enough for racial issues...

    As for Sweden and Nordic countries in general, well, their wellfare is highly respected, also in Germany, even though unfortunately multiculturalism seems to be dragging especially Sweden down. This is something which makes me sad, because Sweden is supposed to be one of the wealthiest countries in the world like it was after WW2.

    So, it really depends on how one defines Germanic. And IMO, there are many definitions.

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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lissu
    So, it really depends on how one defines Germanic. And IMO, there are many definitions.
    Can you offer three?

    And no fair splitting up a single definition, like saying "1) racially Germanic; 2) culturally Germanic; 3) religiously Germanic." All of those could be basically be counted as one definition — they're all choosing one aspect of Germanicity and making it a single criterion. Each is the single-criterion definition. If you want, you can use the single-criterion definition as one of the three.

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