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Thread: Why Are the Irish Not Considered Germanic/Nordic?

  1. #21
    Member Mannerheim's Avatar
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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    So and Germany isn't one of the most purest too? :s
    Sweden and Norway have a lot of Sami mix specially in the North of those countries while Germany has much less sami mix.
    Of course Germany is also quite pure but Germany is so big country from its population compared to my other examples.

    I think this sami mix is exaggerated when we talk about Sweden and Norway.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Fionn's Avatar
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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaico
    Many countries are influenced at a higher or lower level by Germanic culture but that doesn't mean they are Germanic.

    So, what do you really want, Irish to be considered Germanic, or an Irish sub-forum?
    Well, I would propose eliminating Scotland, Finland, and France from the "Germanic sub-forums". The way I see it is that if Ireland is not included then why include other countries that are somewhat influenced by Germanics but aren't really all that Germanic? It's only fair that way. But on the otherhand I would like some of the people on this site to realize that Ireland is influenced by Germanics just as much as Scotland, Finland, etc.

  3. #23
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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adalwulf
    I find it strange that countries such as France and Finland are considered to be Germanic on this site, but Ireland is not.
    That's because it is primarily a Celtic country.
    The great mass of Ireland's people never spoke a Germanic language, particularly as their first tongue, until the last couple of centuries & only under great socio-political-economic pressure, nor was Wotan or Thor ever worshipped within it's borders except for a short time by some rowdy Norse immigrants who decided to do a bit of unwelcome squatting for a while

    On the other hand, Ireland has been shaped by thousands of years of Celtic culture and language.

    If it isn't Celtic, then it certainly can't be Germanic

    Now to start on Ireland.

    Irish people primarily speak a Germanic language:
    So do Jamaicans, are they West Germanics as well?
    English only really became the first tongue in Ireland during the Famine in the 19th century. Before that catastrophic event, the first language of the great majority was a Celtic tongue.

    Vikings settled in Ireland and brought much trade and cultural exchange:
    But ultimately they were a minority who settled in a couple of urban centres before losing their independence at the Battle of Clontarf, at which point they became assimilated into Gaelic (Celtic) society.

    Anglo-Normans invaded Ireland and influenced it greatly:
    Define greatly? All they really influenced was the politics.
    They attempted to inport their own language, Norman French, but it was so unsuccesful that they had to enact The Statute of Kilkenny to try and preserve it. Even then, it died out while the Irish language continued to thrive.

    They tried to import Norman culture as well, but eventually their feudal systems fell by the wayside & the Anglo-Norman families simply became Clans/Septs in the Gaelic tradition and life continued on much as it did before. Like the Vikings before them, it was the Normans who were assimilated and not the other way about.


    What else can be said about Ireland other than that they have been more or less assimilated into Germanic ways? Modern Ireland has almost become a reflection of Britain through many centuries of British dominance and rule.
    In what way?


    Now many of you would probably say that Ireland is very "pure" of outside influence and so on, but you cannot ignore these Germanic groups and their contributions to what Ireland has become. Tell me what you think of this matter.
    It would be as wrong to say that there was no Germanic influence in Ireland in the same way as it would be to say there is no Germanic influence in Argentina. Most people don't consider Argentine to be Western Germanic, however.

    It is important not to point to a measure of Germanic influence in countries so as to annexe them into some Germanic Meta-Ethnicity.

    You have plenty of Germanic nations. You don't need little old Ireland too, do you?

  4. #24
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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adalwulf
    Well, I would propose eliminating Scotland, Finland, and France from the "Germanic sub-forums".
    I wouldn't argue with that, but I guess it's upto the members on Skadi from those countries.

    But on the otherhand I would like some of the people on this site to realize that Ireland is influenced by Germanics just as much as Scotland, Finland, etc.
    I don't think anyone would disagree with that.
    What I would contend though is that the "influence" isn't to such a degree that it justifies including them as Germanics.
    If we are to include countries with Germanic influence then we could include India and all the former British colonies too.

    I think some degree of moderation and restraint is necessary to prevent the whole system from collapsing into the realms of fantasy

  5. #25
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    Griechenland Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Sorry, I take it all back.
    Someone has kindly made me aware via rep point that Ireland is in fact, Greek.

    Touché

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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mannerheim
    Finland is from its culture 100% like Sweden or north-Germany and i mean 100% alike and if that is not germanic culture then i dont know what is.
    Also our nordid component is imho quite big and that is germanic race type.There is no country what would be 100% germanic from its race.

    Imho only our language differs from germanic.So we are 2/3 germanic.

    I think Irish are mainly germanic from its race just like england though its population is mainly celtic and iberic theres still strong viking composition.
    Yes. We must evaluate:
    1. "Blood" i.e. genetics. All matters inherited biologically.
    2. "Tongue" i.e. linguistics. (e.g. Germanic linguists consider Finnish as the "deep freeze" of Proto-Germanic for its many loan words.)
    3. "Faith" i.e. religion. Ancient Heathenry, Modern transformation (="reformation") of Christianity etc. The diversity of "churches" the Germanics are so fond of... --> seems to be a special trait of them.
    4. "Way of Life" i.e. soft culture - customs, moral standards, law etc.
    5. "Household" i.e. hard culture - architecture (house construction!), clothing (trousers are a Germanic invention), certain standards and notions of "hygiene" (soap and comb are Germanic inventions, Germanic people are squeemishly fond of detergents, like to blame others of being "dirty" etc.), also diet (do the Finns brew & drink beer/ale in quantities?) a.s.o.

    All these things must be seen together to come to a judgement about "Germanicity" of a people...

    I think the Finns are quite Germanic. Also the Irish, though less.(?)

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    Senior Member Fionn's Avatar
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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    It's funny, because I keep doing research on Finland and Ireland and I have yet to come across anything that suggests heavy Germanic influence. Linguistically, Finland has barely anyone speaking a Germanic language. Refer to the map that has been reposted umpteen times.



    I found these links interesting:

    Linguistic connections between Irish Gaelic and German: http://www.gaeltacht.info/gael_deutsch.html#i

    Connections between Celtic and Germanic religion:
    http://www.runestone.org/cltgerm.html

    Northern European warrior culture
    http://www.cauldronfarm.com/asphodel..._Cultures.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Milesian
    You have plenty of Germanic nations. You don't need little old Ireland too, do you?
    Personally, I could care less if Ireland is considered Germanic, because really what would that prove? But the point I'm trying to make is that Ireland is influenced by Germanics, whether we would like to admit it or not. It would only make sense to include Ireland if Finland, Scotland, and France are included.

  8. #28
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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adalwulf
    It's funny, because I keep doing research on Finland and Ireland and I have yet to come across anything that suggests heavy Germanic influence. Linguistically, Finland has barely anyone speaking a Germanic language. Refer to the map that has been reposted umpteen times.
    ..and which is somewhat erroneous, since the only Swedish speaking, non-bilingual area in Finland is Åland.

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    Senior Member Fionn's Avatar
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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tryggvi
    If you get Milesian to agree that Ireland is Germanic, we shall add it.

    All joking aside, I concur that there have been important Germanic influences upon Ireland. We could create such a subforum if a few people really need one, but they usually just post such stuff in The Celtic Realm, Northern Germanics, Western Germanics, Heathenry, Thought and Memory, and so forth, depending on where it fits best.

    There is also an excellent forum about the Irish, run by a former Skadi admin, where Germanic influences upon their nation can be discussed.
    I support adding a subforum for Ireland. It seems a pretty fair and reasonable thing to do. Of course, it is all up to the admins who see it fit to be added.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Theudiskaz's Avatar
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    Re: Why isn't Ireland considered Germanic?

    I support adding a subforum for Ireland. It seems a pretty fair and reasonable thing to do. Of course, it is all up to the admins who see it fit to be added.
    It's a slippery slope.
    -Hyge sceal ğe heardre, heorte ğe cénre, mód sceal ğe máre, şı úre mægen lytlaş. -The Battle of Maldon
    -I love the great despisers, because they are the great adorers, and arrows of longing for the other shore. -Thus Spake Zarathustra

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