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Thread: Atheists Are Right, "God" Isn't "Real"

  1. #41
    Senior Member Wulfram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jupiter View Post

    I say that we are, so your point is moot.
    The point I was making was that this thread and your arguments were pointless to begin with.
    These kinds of debates are always ultimately worthless except to show off a pompous sense of intellectualism.

    My spiritual understandings are the same as those held by any sane man of good breeding prior to the Enlightenment. To me, a reestablishment of transcendentalism and a total elimination of agnosticism, relativism, and materialism are one and the same as Germanic preservation.
    Uh-huh. Maybe you should open another thread explaining how this supposed to work.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Wulfram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardito View Post
    None of that has happened either.

    What we've been saying is, Hey, look over there, there's something cool over there you should see, and the reaction has been, No, there's nothing over there, everything that can possibly be is in this corner.
    Hm...please explain how this is not a debate.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Rev. Jupiter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronan View Post
    The point I was making was that this thread and your arguments were pointless to begin with.
    These kinds of debates are always ultimately worthless except to show off a pompous sense of intellectualism.
    From your perspective. Your perspective is derived from the philosophical assumption that truth is relative, so arguing about it is pointless.

    I'm an absolutist, so I can see nothing more worthy of discussion.

    Your agnosticism is precisely the lack of understanding the quote in the first post of this thread refers to. Look at the word agnosticism...a-gnosis. Lacking wisdom.

    Awesome.
    To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage. - Eliphas Lévi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jupiter View Post

    My spiritual understandings are the same as those held by any sane man of good breeding prior to the Enlightenment. To me, a reestablishment of transcendentalism and a total elimination of agnosticism, relativism, and materialism are one and the same as Germanic preservation.
    Really? I don't think anyone will question the fact that Christians love non-European races. God created Mr Chong and Latiyaheisha Williams the same as everyone else. We're in essence the same as them and we have a moral obligation to love them as we would anyone else.

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    Senior Member Wulfram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jupiter View Post
    From your perspective. From your perspective, truth is relative so arguing about it is pointless.

    I'm an absolutist, so I can see nothing more worthy of discussion.

    Your agnosticism is precisely the lack of understanding the quote in the first post of this thread refers to. Look at the word agnosticism...a-gnosis. Lacking wisdom.

    Awesome.
    Reverend, what does all this intellectualizing have to do with Germanic preservation?
    How are Germanics supposed to benefit from it?

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    Senior Member Meister's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Rev. Jupiter;1056185]It's amusing to me that your sole arguments against Christianity are based upon heretical sectarian and reformist doctrines that are only a few centuries old, if that.QUOTE]

    I don't care about any of that. My point was that people have been killing and controlling each over religion for centuries. You have even had people of the same religion but different dominations killing each other. Now surely if there was a God and they were seeing all of this brutality they would want to stop it somehow.

    I was answering the question in an objective manner. My own personal beliefs are a different matter, I do believe and I have sat in churches and enjoyed the serenity I feel when there, but that by no means I can prove any of it as being real, except to myself. I also believe in the idea of numerous old Gods.

    Which is what people have to understand, religion/spirituality is a very personal thing, if you believe it, great and keep it to yourself, don't kill someone because they believe that God is "A" and you believe God is "B" because as others have pointed out we could argue forever (and humanity has done just that) and we will never get anywhere.
    I grew up on a belief of honour, courage and the old world values. The world isn't about that anymore, preferring to die a slow death of fast food and cheap thrills.

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    My view of 'God' is that it is so complete and perfect that we cannot assign 'him' any attributes because that would limit God and his perfection. Not even existence because that implies spaciality.

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    The black people over here still cling to their forefather spirit worship, no matter the 3 centuries spent trying to Christianize them. This has started me thinking along strange lines recently. The Bantu "civilization" were headed nowhere before Western colonists arrived. There are no reason to believe they would have independently invented the wheel for example. One can not deny that if the God of Europeans do exist then clearly He doesn't have even a rudimentary care about the Bantu people. But there is a lesson to be learned from them. Whether their "gods" created them or were created by them, the results they achieved speaks for themselves. From a historic perspective having one God is a very powerful driving force. It provided our people with a single unifying focus for our will power. I am recently of the opinion that the matter of will power is key.
    There will be no Germanic revival if we allow our will to be diluted.

    I know an apologize for the fact that my proposition here may seem inappropriate in the sense that it moves the question away from the philosophical "realness" of God to the more psychological question of "do we need Him?".

  9. #49
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    To me God is like a position or title. One person's God is another being's brother, other's son, and yet another's total stranger. It's relative. The way ancients believed in gods is far different than the two sides of this "debate" believe. A lot of times wars were fought not because their was a single God everyone agreed upon, but a bunch of different people who thought their believed God was better than that of others. Corrupt kings and rulers are partly to blame for this corruption of belief. They just used pre-existing god beliefs to rally believers around them (see GW Bush for modern example).

    The irony of this is both modern sides come from the same source - Aristotle and his pupils. He coined terms like "Universe" which means "single rotation" in his native Greek. The same coining of a term brings us "God of the Universe" and "University". The fact that this term is based in earth-centric belief notwithstanding (Aristotle believed the "universe" rotated one time around the earth each day - hence the term), it has a strong hold on today's world. Everyone want something that is universal, and which answers all problems in the known "universe". Science is one school of thought, and monotheist religion is another. People will be surprised that Aristotle is more influential in the creation of monotheistic religion than Abraham ever was. His thought was wrapped into Christianity by the Greco-Roman Byzantines and moved back to Rome. Muslims started their religion based partly out of the teachings of Socrates and Aristotle, and they are even mentioned in the Quran as prophets. I don't even know what modern Jews believe in, if anything uniformly defined, but they are influenced by ancient Greece as well.

    I think the more people try to find universal truth the more they tend to exclude other truths. It's good to explain things with scientific research, but not good to eliminate things which could exist just because science doesn't know how they could exist. Belief fills the void. Equally, monotheists and other religionists who go by their passed on version of God while calling everything outside their canon "Satan" (or whatever they call it) is also damaging to the pursuit of truth.

    I don't think the Bible speaks of a "God of the Universe" anymore than "Universities" teach everything there is to know about reality in the so-called universe. I believe in personal God(s), but I think humans defining his (her / its) scope or even role is assuming something not even spoken of in the Bible. The Bible doesn't even speak of how vast the universe (or what astronomers see), partly because they didn't have the instruments to see it. Most of them were concerned with who was going to save them from the latest baddie (Babylon, Assyria, Egypt, etc.). And saying he is "God of the Universe" could be limiting if millions of universes exist which some unfathomable being actually has the time, attention and mind-power to follow and rule over. After all saying what's outside this universe or before the Big Bang is like saying what's north of the North Pole. It's out of our reference system of 3-D space and the moving time position (probably along a 4th dimension of unknown nature).

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    Senior Member Segestan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jupiter View Post
    "He who says there is no God, without having defined God in a complete and absolute manner, simply talks nonsense. I wait for his definition, and when he has set this forth after his own fashion, I am certain, beforehand, of being able to say to him, "I agree with you, there is no such God"; but that God is certainly not my God. If he says to me: "Define your God," I should reply, "I will take good care to do nothing of the kind, for a God defined is a God dethroned." Every positive definition is deniable, the Infinite is the undefined." - Eliphas Lévi

    Discuss.
    The weakness of faith is it forces the believer to resort to clever uses of ideas and words.

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