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Thread: Atheists Are Right, "God" Isn't "Real"

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    Atheists Are Right, "God" Isn't "Real"

    "He who says there is no God, without having defined God in a complete and absolute manner, simply talks nonsense. I wait for his definition, and when he has set this forth after his own fashion, I am certain, beforehand, of being able to say to him, "I agree with you, there is no such God"; but that God is certainly not my God. If he says to me: "Define your God," I should reply, "I will take good care to do nothing of the kind, for a God defined is a God dethroned." Every positive definition is deniable, the Infinite is the undefined." - Eliphas LÚvi

    Discuss.
    To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage. - Eliphas LÚvi

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    Yeah, pretty much.
    In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.
    -John 1:1

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    I agree with the sentiment. God can't be defined, understood or known, so nobody should ever ascribe any quality to 'him' whatsoever. All we can know about God is that 'he' isn't anything we know; which is to say, he isn't absolute, conscious, autonomous, omnipresent, omnipotent, a first cause, moral, a designer, a creator, good, a 'he' or anything any religious person has naively defined 'him' as.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    I agree with the sentiment. God can't be defined, understood or known, so nobody should ever ascribe any quality to 'him' whatsoever. All we can know about God is that 'he' isn't anything we know; which is to say, he isn't absolute, conscious, autonomous, omnipresent, omnipotent, a first cause, moral, a designer, a creator, good, a 'he' or anything any religious person has naively defined 'him' as.
    You have failed to note intuitive knowledge, which is at the centre of all mystical/transcendentalist thinking. That one cannot explain it does not mean that one does not know it.
    In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.
    -John 1:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jupiter View Post
    "He who says there is no God, without having defined God in a complete and absolute manner, simply talks nonsense. I wait for his definition, and when he has set this forth after his own fashion, I am certain, beforehand, of being able to say to him, "I agree with you, there is no such God"; but that God is certainly not my God. If he says to me: "Define your God," I should reply, "I will take good care to do nothing of the kind, for a God defined is a God dethroned." Every positive definition is deniable, the Infinite is the undefined." - Eliphas LÚvi

    Discuss.
    It's a neat little sentiment. Unfortunately, it has no necessary bearing on reality, or fact.

    It certainly proves absolutely nothing.
    "So, yes, we are better than others. Our worldviews are better than those of others. This does not need to be universally true, it is enough when it is true for us." - velvet

    "Our blood unity is of infinitely more worth than religious particularities;" - Chlodovech

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    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Erlkoenig View Post
    It's a neat little sentiment. Unfortunately, it has no necessary bearing on reality, or fact.
    Precisely.

    The point is that reality and fact ≠ truth.
    To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage. - Eliphas LÚvi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jupiter View Post
    Precisely.

    The point is that reality and fact ≠ truth.
    I'm not quite sure what you mean, exactly.
    "So, yes, we are better than others. Our worldviews are better than those of others. This does not need to be universally true, it is enough when it is true for us." - velvet

    "Our blood unity is of infinitely more worth than religious particularities;" - Chlodovech

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    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Erlkoenig View Post
    I'm not quite sure what you mean, exactly.
    That's evident.
    To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage. - Eliphas LÚvi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardito View Post
    You have failed to note intuitive knowledge, which is at the centre of all mystical/transcendentalist thinking. That one cannot explain it does not mean that one does not know it.
    Ok, so you can intuit God, but can't understand God. So God could be anything. A walrus, two walruses, a musical walrus. It could also be a walrus that wants us to murder each other, or wants us to only eat haddock. This is the problem of religion. It's forced to be so vague in its scramble to evade the perspicacity of reason that it ends up inadvertently neutering itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    Ok, so you can intuit God, but can't understand God.

    >implying understanding necessarily means one can put it into words


    That's exactly my point.
    In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.
    -John 1:1

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