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Thread: Should One Get Their Child Christened?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jupiter View Post
    Good to know you're a quick and dynamic poster who can keep up with the insidious trickery of the edit function.
    ummm... K, I guess I responded adequately to your crappy post. I responded adequately to your crappy edit too.
    "So, yes, we are better than others. Our worldviews are better than those of others. This does not need to be universally true, it is enough when it is true for us." - velvet

    "Our blood unity is of infinitely more worth than religious particularities;" - Chlodovech

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Erlkoenig View Post
    Of course the two aren't mutually exclusive, but I've never met a troll before who cares about reason.
    The idea that one can exist without the other comes from the Enlightenment.

    Prior to that there is little reference to the synonymity of the ideas in any ethical or philosophical text, and if mentioned it all it is usually in opposition (see: any of Plato's writings)

    Anyway, arguing against infant baptism in the name of personal freedoms presupposes that personal freedom is inherently superior to being forced into a role with all of the expectations to go along with it.
    Being someone who places virtue above freedom, I can only see injecting a healthy dose of liberalism into a child's mind at that young an age as setting him up to be a peasant-minded, libertine twit.

    However, to baptize the child puts them into a solidly defined role, which is essential to having a fertile ground in which to sow the seeds of virtuous ideas and goals.
    To practice magic is to be a quack; to know magic is to be a sage. - Eliphas Lévi

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jupiter View Post
    The idea that one can exist without the other comes from the Enlightenment.

    Prior to that there is little reference to the synonymity of the ideas in any ethical or philosophical text, and if mentioned it all it is usually in opposition (see: any of Plato's writings)

    Anyway, arguing against infant baptism in the name of personal freedoms presupposes that personal freedom is inherently superior to being forced into a role with all of the expectations to go along with it.
    Being someone who places virtue above freedom, I can only see injecting a healthy dose of liberalism into a child's mind at that young an age as setting him up to be a peasant-minded, libertine twit.

    However, to baptize the child puts them into a solidly defined role, which is essential to having a fertile ground in which to sow the seeds of virtuous ideas and goals.
    Nah, thats ridiculous. How about this, until you post something of value, I'm simply going to ignore your posts.
    "So, yes, we are better than others. Our worldviews are better than those of others. This does not need to be universally true, it is enough when it is true for us." - velvet

    "Our blood unity is of infinitely more worth than religious particularities;" - Chlodovech

  4. #34
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardito View Post
    I can't see medieval Saxons being okay with their sons dressing in drag and talking about peace and love, to be honest.
    Just because you brought up that example:

    I can't see medieval Saxons being okay with their sons being baptised either, to be honest.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Verden


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irminsul
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
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  5. #35
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardito
    Thinking in terms of choice is the entire essence of liberalism, and it is the root of every problem which the modern world experiences.

    Do you honestly mean to tell me that you wouldn't teach your child to think how you do?
    Teach someone to think like me (which is imho the wrong point to start anyway, I'd teach it to think) is very much something different than to cripple the child with a forceful act that blinds his spiritual eye forever.

    The one is "teaching" and give it tools to grow, the other is "hurting" to limit the possibility to grow.

    And re: christian baptism in ancient times. Most were only baptised when they were about to die. This nonsense of infant baptism is very much a modern invention and has absolutely nothing to do with 'tradition'.

    And yeah, I wished my Heathen ancestors would have been less tolerant (aka give no choice) and had kicked out the Christians more ruthlessly, then we wouldnt have to discuss this nonsense in the first place, because christianity never had taken hold in our lands.

    But it could have been worse, really. What you call christian, in 99 percent of all cases really is heathen, so we do have a continuity of tradition, even if today largely twisted and, more dramatically, emptied of meaning, but it's all still there and can be repaired.

    To cripple infants though will not help us to repair our spirituality.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Ardito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    I can't see medieval Saxons being okay with their sons being baptised either, to be honest.
    I know you've read at least a few of these threads where the Germanicity of Christianity has been argued, so I know you know exactly what's wrong with what you just said, and I'm not going to dignify it with an answer beyond this.
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    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardito View Post
    I know you've read at least a few of these threads where the Germanicity of Christianity has been argued, so I know you know exactly what's wrong with what you just said, and I'm not going to dignify it with an answer beyond this.
    As velvet said, Christianity later on was largely still founded on Pagan traditions, that's true, but the basic concept itself was foreign.

    I don't really know what you're trying to tell me now, I have no idea what should be wrong with my counterexample. Are you suggesting our ancestors converted happily to Christianity, that the Massacre of Verden never happened and that the Irminsul was chopped down because Charlemagne needed firewood?

    I'm not hating on Christianity by the way, it's part of our history but that does not mean that we have to deny that it was largely a forceful conversion.

    I request you to elaborate, otherwise I have to assume you ran out of arguments. ("I'm not going to dignify it with an answer beyond this.")
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



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  8. #38
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    I suppose that's up to the parents, really, and for some folks, religion is merely a matter of ancestry or culture.

    In Catholicism, there must be a well-founded hope that the child will be brought up in the Catholic faith. If not, many priests will deny or delay baptism. If a child's parents don't have any intention of attending Mass or taking the child to Mass, then it's unfair to place the child in a situation where he or she is bound by Church law, but has no way to fulfill it.


    Can. 868 §1. For an infant to be baptized licitly:

    2/ there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason.
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    "I suppose that's up to the parents, really, and for some folks, religion is merely a matter of ancestry or culture."

    Baptizing of babies is not scriptural, Jesus himself was baptized as an adult.
    Catholicism and Protestantism have added too many do's and dont's to the gospels.
    Some Protestant groups just dedicate the child to God in prayer, I don't see anything wrong with that.
    Once that child grows up and hears and understands the message of the Gospels and decides to follow Christ, then the baptism becomes scriptural.
    I was baptized as a baby in the protestant church. I was baptized again when I was an adult after deciding to follow Christ and follow his teachings.

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