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Thread: What is Freedom?

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    Spenglerian
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    What is Freedom?

    What is freedom?

    Does freedom really exist?

    How does freedom exist within a purely determinist universe and spatial plane?

    Are we as human beings really free or is freedom merely a masquerade of our own delusions?
    National Socialism is the only salvation for Germanics and Europids everywhere. Capitalism, libertarianism, and communism is the enemy.

    National socialized collectivism must prevail over radical individualism.

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    Account Inactive King Sitric's Avatar
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    These questions above evokes the works of Descartes, Hegel, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Heideggar, Jean-Paul Sarte etc...

    Freedom is non-slavery as folk understand today.
    It is liberty, free-will, free-choice, sovereignity, non-attachment, non-commitment, etc...

    But as Sartre pointed out, 'Existence precedes essence.' In a secular and godless world today, with such freedom, human beings are now 'condemned' to be free. Human beings are 'free' to be what they want to be! With such freedoms today, folk now have to give themselves purpose.
    Some folks hide and escape such freedom by slipping into a social role,etc... so as to give themselves an identity!

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    Senior Member Wulfram's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone in history has ever been truly free, not even the rulers.
    We should instead consider who has been the least restrained.


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    Freedom is detatchment from modern society, and the expectations and restrictions of the media and the government. Hardly any body today is free. Far too many people are agents to the jews and it is planted within them to not realise it.

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    I don't have the freedom to spread all of the Moon across my bread this morning.

    I don't have the freedom to take a wrench to the equipment and furnishings of a local bank that's defrauded me in time for Christmas.

    Why don't I have these freedoms? In the first case, it's because I don't have the power to do that. I couldn't do it if I were alone on a tropical island, I couldn't do it if I ruled the entire world, I couldn't do it if everyone agreed to not try to stop or punish the act. In the second case, it's because I'll face undesirable consequences, from my perspective, for doing that. And that it's my perspective that matters, highlights that a restrictive consequence could be something like "my mother will cry" or "I may fall to accomplish the political objective."

    So if it's bad that someone ever feels unfree, you could alleviate this by raising them in a VR chamber that simulated the satisfaction of crazy desires, or you could destroy parts of their brain until they no longer traced actions to any restraining consequences. That these are grotesque solutions doesn't reflect on my analysis, I think, so much as on 'freedom'. The idea must have its roots in reaction: "I really don't like that tyrant over there. I really don't like the hopeless look of that slave. I wonder, what would be a good word for 'not that' ? ..."

    You might enjoy hearing songs about freedom, but I think when these are sung that the singers disguise all the genuinely good things they think about. People sweep dust under carpets; they don't sweep paintings under carpets. A fuzzy ambiguous disputable word shouldn't mask anything much better than it.

    You might support those who advocate freedom in political spheres, but what does that even mean? Won't that just end in some compromise between sets of violations, because "of course 'true freedom' would be absurd!" ?

    I prefer those who can say that such and such is wicked and evil, and then thoroughly defend this assertion, to the point of defending the actions they take against it. If you see an ongoing murder attempt, you don't need some grand vision of a post-murder world to motivate you to act. And if you had such a vision, it could distract you with thoughts like "but won't people react favorably to my plans if this horrible thing happens?"

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    Account Inactive King Sitric's Avatar
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    Freedom is also money, wealth!

    Money buys power!

    Power = Freedom!

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    Spenglerian
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Sitric View Post
    These questions above evokes the works of Descartes, Hegel, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Heideggar, Jean-Paul Sarte etc...

    Freedom is non-slavery as folk understand today.
    It is liberty, free-will, free-choice, sovereignity, non-attachment, non-commitment, etc...

    But as Sartre pointed out, 'Existence precedes essence.' In a secular and godless world today, with such freedom, human beings are now 'condemned' to be free. Human beings are 'free' to be what they want to be! With such freedoms today, folk now have to give themselves purpose.
    Some folks hide and escape such freedom by slipping into a social role,etc... so as to give themselves an identity!
    More and more I think freedom to a great extent is an illusion in that people are not free but rather their behavior is determined in a set of parameters.

    Those parameters define what they can and can't do where there really is no freedom at all.

    Even freedom of choice is a illusion in that choice along with options are dictated by a set of determined parameters as well guided by necessity.

    In existence we are slaves to those governed parameters whether we like it or not where we cannot literally in any real sense be called free.

    This is specifically why I think discussions of freedom in social politics is useless and misguided.

    [And why democracy is a ridiculous absurd notion.]

    Ronan said: I don't think anyone in history has ever been truly free, not even the rulers.
    We should instead consider who has been the least restrained.
    And really Ronan that's exactly what it comes down to in the end.

    I agree with that.

    I like to define civilization as a prison construct in that you have your prisoners, guards, and wardens which in a way can be a distinguished articulative analogy of describing the three social classes found in societal hierarchy.

    At any rate the prisoners, guards, and wardens are not free in that their entire lives revolve around the prison that they exist in but nobody wants to be just a low level prisoner in the prison where everybody aspires to be either guards or wardens in that by achieving those ranks one atleast is able to be granted some level of privileges within the prison construct in contrast where the low level prisoners are not granted any at all.

    It's a bit of a cynical way of looking at civilization but I truely do look at it as such.

    Sometimes in this prison construct things become so chaotic where there is a prison uprising in the guise of revolution but after every uprising things just end up going back to the way they always were in terms of the prison status quo.
    National Socialism is the only salvation for Germanics and Europids everywhere. Capitalism, libertarianism, and communism is the enemy.

    National socialized collectivism must prevail over radical individualism.

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    Account Inactive King Sitric's Avatar
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    "I like to define civilization as a prison construct...."

    AlaricLachlan - You have touched upon Rousseau's critique of civilization where he more or less said that when humanity became civilized it became enslaved!

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    Spenglerian
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Sitric View Post
    "I like to define civilization as a prison construct...."

    AlaricLachlan - You have touch upon Rousseau's critique of civilization where he more or less said that when humainity became civilized it became enslaved!
    In a sense I agree with Jean Jacques Rousseau along with many modern day anarcho primitivists on the subject.

    Civilization has it's benefits of technology, industry, and science but at the end of the day of all the benefits that we enjoy from it we are nonetheless slaves to those artificial attachments or constructs along with the metanarratives that come with existing in modern civilization.

    [ Primitive people's are still a slave to somthing outside of civilization but I believe they are less restrained to that of the civilized man when it concerns history in that the primitive man is only a slave to nature where the civilized man is a slave to a great deal of other things in comparison.]

    [The primitive man is less restrained to fulfill their natural urges and instincts versus the civilized man who has every aspect of their existence restrained by somthing or someone else.]

    [In civilization I believe what little independence that we have goes largely squandered by others.]

    [By man's attempt to control existence around themselves through the vehicle of civilization in the attempt to universally elevate himself as his goal instead what only happens is that in that process of elevation he only enslaves himself even further by reducing all what he originally had to begin with.]

    [Wouldn't he be less restrained in life, if he had done nothing at all?]

    However if we want to get even more cynical we could say that beyond civilization we are slaves to nature and the reality of existence all around us where upon our own death we have to acknowledge just what exactly is the true master of us all.
    National Socialism is the only salvation for Germanics and Europids everywhere. Capitalism, libertarianism, and communism is the enemy.

    National socialized collectivism must prevail over radical individualism.

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    Account Inactive King Sitric's Avatar
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    AlaricLachlan - So what is your opinion of 'primitive' societies ... ie The natives of Australia or Africans - folk that existed with nature for centuries and centuries before Europeans arrived and somewhat upset this eco balance of the way such societies/people lived?

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