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Thread: Universal Health Care?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Æmeric View Post
    What is decent about making some people purchase healthcare for others?

    Yes. The Constitutional defines, and limits, the power of the United States government.

    Why should everyone go bankrupt providing free healthcare to everyone? You've heard of Medicare? The universal heathcare system for the elderly in the US. That program is going to bankrupt us, proving universal healthcare to everryone will just hasten the day we go broke.

    Lets get something straight: Free healthcare is not free, someone pays for it. The reasons for why healthcare is expensive have already been mentioned (tort law, the government ran Medicare system, administrative costs to comply with regulations), address the causes of runaway healthcare costs & the price of health insurance will come down. Btw, even the uninsured in America get medicare treatment, hospitals do not turn away the critical ill or injured.
    Well hell if you don't like taxation or state sponsored government programs we might as well get rid of public and state retirement funds meaning you can be cut off from your retirement checks altogether where you can go back in the workplace working fourty hour weeks up into your old elderly age until your grave.

    Now I wonder what the constitution has to say about that.

    [It doesn't say anything about a right to retirement...........]


    Sorry grandma looks like your going to work at mcdonalds way up into your eighties until you drop dead in the work place of a massive heart attack.

    [That ought to go very well with the general public.]


    [Maybe she will be lucky going to a hospital in a ambulance where she will be treated and saved just in time but she will wished she had died when faced with the bill and the prospect of financial bankruptcy realizing it would of just been cheaper for herself to just die instead except for the fact that whatever relatives she may have will have to actually pay her death tax ironically.]


    Your just supporting the notion that there is a price for human life.

    That's all...............
    National Socialism is the only salvation for Germanics and Europids everywhere. Capitalism, libertarianism, and communism is the enemy.

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardito View Post
    I'm only playing devil's advocate here, but why should the constitution say what it does? You say "constitution says" as though that's equivalent to "God descended from the heavens and said it personally".
    The U.S. Constitution is our law of the land. While there may be other statues passed these must not go against the actual laws and rights of the people.

    We have in this country certain inalienable rights that are supposed to protect the citizens from the government and each other. They are not based on any religious doctrine. They are however based on Anglo-Saxon common law and the ideas that all free men are equal. That includes being equal and seperate from the state.

    Basically it defines we are citizens and not subjects. Therefore the state cannot impose its will on us. At least that is how it is supposed to work.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

  3. #33
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    I have always found American health care interesting. I am quite content with universal health care. In Canada everyone gets granted health care whether they can afford it or not, and we do not have to pay for ridiculous hospital bills for the most part.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Ardito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpearBrave View Post
    Basically it defines we are citizens and not subjects. Therefore the state cannot impose its will on us. At least that is how it is supposed to work.
    I understand, but the constitution provides for being amended, and this has been done a number of times. Why should it not be amended again, to guarantee healthcare as a right?

    Again, I don't wish for this to happen, but simply referencing what the constitution says comes across to me as weak argumentation. I'd like something more substantive against the idea of universal healthcare from the American conservative position.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caledonian View Post
    Well hell if you don't like taxation or state sponsored government programs we might as well get rid of public or state retirement funds meaning you can be cut off from your retirement checks where you can go back in the workplace working fourty hour weeks up into your old elderly age until your grave.
    Sounds good to me.

    Really you should plan for your own retirement. Imagine all that SSI money that you pay the government so some illegal alien can get a free ride.

    Now I wonder what the constitution has to say about that.

    It doesn't say anything about a right to retirement...........
    It does however say that you have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    It does not guarantee you anything. You have to suck it up and take care of yourself.

    Sorry grandma looks like your going to work at mcdonalds way up into your eighties until you drop dead in the work place.
    Well there are two ways to look at this.

    1. The cold hard way grandma should have been thinking of her retirement.

    Now the good way

    2. Where the hell is grandmas family, a new and surprising idea that the folk should take care of their own and not let any government do it for them. This in the long run would make the folk stronger and less dependant on the state.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardito View Post
    I understand, but the constitution provides for being amended, and this has been done a number of times. Why should it not be amended again, to guarantee healthcare as a right?

    Again, I don't wish for this to happen, but simply referencing what the constitution says comes across to me as weak argumentation. I'd like something more substantive against the idea of universal health care from the American conservative position.
    Well in order for the Constitution to be amended it has to be ratified by the individual states and the people. Right now over 75 % of the people are against government run health care/ health insurance. It is a rare occasion that new Amendments are added, I don't think there has been one in my life and I'm 44.

    The most substantive thing against government run health is the people don't want it and our Constitution protects us from things the people don't want( government intrusion into our personal lives).

    Most Americans are the do it yourself types, meaning we don't want or need the state to take care of us.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Ardito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpearBrave View Post
    It does however say that you have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    That's the declaration of independence, which is not a legal document. What the constitution says is that one cannot be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.
    In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardito View Post
    That's the declaration of independence, which is not a legal document. What the constitution says is that one cannot be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.
    The declaration is a legal document same as the Constitution and the articles of confederation. Along with these also go the federalist papers. All part of our legal documents.

    The due process of law in this case is the government if trying to force the people to purchase something they don't want or need. They are in fact breaking the laws set fourth in the Constitution by mandating we purchase something(liberty). This much has been decided already in a federal court.

    Sorry about the confusion I was answering his post about retirement. Yes SSI is also illegal and you can opt out of it like the Amish do.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpearBrave View Post
    The declaration is a legal document same as the Constitution and the articles of confederation. Along with these also go the federalist papers. All part of our legal documents.
    My apologies. I had been informed otherwise.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpearBrave View Post
    They are in fact breaking the laws set fourth in the Constitution by mandating we purchase something(liberty).
    This kind of thing is got away with by the federal government by stretching the bit about inter-state commerce, is it not?
    In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardito View Post
    This kind of thing is got away with by the federal government by stretching the bit about inter-state commerce, is it not?
    Hehe stretching is a nice word, the commerce clause is probably the most abused thing in all or our laws.

    But it does not supersede the basic rights that are listed in the Bill of Rights( Constitution ). Thank the gods for that.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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