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Thread: Would You Have Served in the Third Reich?

  1. #71
    Senior Member prodeutsch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar View Post
    Seeing as you're new, you're not quite acclimated to the forum yet. If you can't deal with National-Socialists or debates over the Jews, I suggest you leave now. (or stick to topics other than politics). This is how you offend people and get the banhammer, which I've seen happen many times. So be prepared for flak.
    (and please don't treat me like I'm some dense, skinhead, brute fanatic)

    Again, please cite where these "slave laborers" came from. If you're talking about concentration camps and POW camps that's another affair entirely.

    Spare me the tearjerking memoir for facts, please.

    The 3rd Reich during and before the war was never race materialist in that, just because the opponents of Hitler and the 3rd Reich were "white" does not mean they still weren't his Zionist enemies. (Germany did not even use the term White to describe the various European races).
    Hitlers fight was against the Jewish and Freemason occupied governments of the west who brought war upon him. I think what you're referring to as "sending Germanic brothers to their deaths" is called war. And believe me, War doesn't have origins with Hitler. Not even Vikings and ancient Germanic tribes had this notion of a universal "non-aggression pact" with other Germanic countries just because they had the same culture.
    Only Neo-Nazis see the struggle of the "white race" against "muds", something Hitler would have saw to be absurd. Neo-Nazism is an egalitarian movement for the in-group and hatred and indifference to the out-group. I've discussed before the difference between Neo-Nazism and National-Socialism before, so unless you'd like to hear about it, don't bring it up and accuse anyone of anything.

    The Reich's alliances with the respective nations you listed were not ones of Racial Unity but Aryan Unity. Hitler called the Japanese "Honorary Aryans" in that, despite their racial background their national character and government was worthy to be called Aryan, which in Sanskrit means "Nobleman" (not white person, as many of the unenlightened crowd believes.)

    While I (and other clear-headed National-Socialists) view our movement and opinions as a continuation of what Hitler began, we do not treat Hitler's ideas as rigid dogma and will disagree with him outright as necessary. National Socialist Germany lasted only 12 years before it was cut short, and as such cannot be considered anything but a work in earliest progress. The practical conditions of the 21st century are also quite unlike those of the 20th century. Like our post-WWII forerunners such as Savitri Devi, Miguel Serrano, and David Myatt, our role is to develop ideology afresh rather than slavishly reiterate the incomplete. Doubtless Hitler himself would support such positivity. Which mindset would we (NS or non-NS Germanics) want to adopt, that Hitler inspires us or demoralizes us?
    Hmmm, interesting how those nobelmen had a propensity to carve up white prisoners while alive AKA human vivisection. Ever hear of unit 731? No Asian ever would be considered noble in my book!

  2. #72
    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zimobog View Post
    The conflict on the Atlantic resulted from FDR's choice to trade with warring European nations: Lend-Lease for our "democratic" allies and Cash and Carry for "non-democratic" allies. Germany tried to enact a blockade against us supplying civilian goods and weapons to Britian (embargos aren't exactly friendly). A German sub was being shadowed by the destroyer Greer and the sub fired on it. After this incident, FDR announced that US destroyers would escort British ships from US waters to Iceland. The Kearny and the Ruben James where torpedoed on escort duty by German subs.

    So from my point of view, Germany's declaration of war makes untrue statements.

    I think FDR was provoking Germany, yes, but I think Germany was the aggressor and fired first (as do American military historians). Your statement that he had been giving aid to Germany's enemies is undeniable. Britian and France definately had been given prefrence in treatment and had declared war on Germany first.
    Germany might have fired the first actual shot but tracking down a U-boat for others to destroy it is equally an act of war in my book. That's what even Wikipedia says about it:

    Upon allegations that the President's statements were misleading, "if not false", the Senate Committee on Naval Affairs inquired with Admiral Harold R. Stark, Chief of Naval Operations, as to the details of the incident. Admiral Stark's report to the Senate Committee "made the President's statement... appear in some respects inadequate, and, in others, incorrect."[3] The following is a synopsis of Stark's report:

    At 0840 that morning, Greer, carrying mail and passengers to Iceland, was signaled by a British plane that a German submarine had crash-dived some 10 miles (16 km) ahead. Forty minutes later the destroyer's soundman picked up U-652, and Greer began to trail the submarine. The plane, running low on fuel, dropped four depth charges at 1032 and returned to base, while Greer continued to "trail the submarine, broadcasting its position."[3] Two hours later the German boat began a series of radical maneuvers and Greer's lookouts saw her pass about 100 yards (100 m) off. An impulse bubble at 1248 warned Greer of a torpedo, and she rang up flank speed and bore rudder hard left. Lookouts watched the torpedo pass 100 yards (100 m) astern and the warship then charged in for an attack. She laid a pattern of eight depth charges which missed, and less than two minutes later a second torpedo passed 300 yards (300 m) to port.

    Greer lost sound contact during the maneuvers, and began to quarter the area in search of the U-boat. After 2 hours, she re-established sound contact and laid down a pattern of 11 depth charges before discontinuing the engagement. Greer had held the German raider in sound contact 3 hours and 28 minutes[3]; had evaded two torpedoes fired at her; and with her 19 depth charges had become the first American ship in World War II to attack the Kriegsmarine.

    These revelations caused Arthur Krock to comment upon the argument "over who 'attacked' whom". [b]Krock stated that a reasonable definition of the term "attack" is "an onset, an aggressive initiation of combat, a move which is the antithesis of 'defense' [, and by] that definition, all three of our destroyers (the Greer, the Kearny, and the Reuben James -- all in separate incidents) attacked the German submarines."[b][4]
    And no, embargos aren't friendly but neither is the supplement of weapons towards a nation at war by a neutral state (as you said yourself). Our embargo didn't hurt the USA in any aspect though, we were blockading the UK.
    It shouldn't surprise you either that warships on patrol duty in international waters protecting enemy ships get attacked.

    I don't think I've heard of the USA breaking the English blockade of Germany in WWI and even after the end of hostilities when millions of German women and children starved to death.

    Edit:
    Concerning the USS Kearny:
    While Kearny was at Reykjavik before the US was forced into World War II, she was summoned with three other US destroyers to assist a beleaguered convoy whose Canadian escorts were being overwhelmed. A U-Boat wolfpack was tearing the convoy apart. Kearny immediately began dropping depth charges and continued to barrage throughout the night. At the beginning of the midwatch 17 October, a torpedo fired by U-568 struck Kearny on the starboard side.
    With what justification does a warship of a neutral power engage in unprovoked hostilities? And how could you expect no counterattack for that?

    Concerning USS Reuben James:
    Reuben James had positioned herself between an ammunition ship in the convoy and the known position of a "wolf pack", a group of submarines that preyed on Allied shipping. Reuben James was hit forward by a torpedo and her entire bow was blown off when a magazine exploded. The bow sank immediately.
    So she willingly took the torpedo in functioning as a distraction target for the U-boat, maybe with the intention to use her "neutral" status as not to make an attack on the ammunition ship possible in the first place.
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



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  3. #73
    Senior Member prodeutsch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Germany might have fired the first actual shot but tracking down a U-boat for others to destroy it is equally an act of war in my book. That's what even Wikipedia says about it:



    And no, embargos aren't friendly but neither is the supplement of weapons towards a nation at war by a neutral state (as you said yourself). Our embargo didn't hurt the USA in any aspect though, we were blockading the UK.

    I don't think I've heard of the USA breaking the English blockade of Germany in WWI and even after the end of hostilities when millions of German women and children starved to death.
    Millions of German Women and children starved to death? Please cite sources. I have never heard anything of the sort.

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    Mein Glaube ist die Liebe zu meinem Volk. Juthunge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodeutsch View Post
    Millions of German Women and children starved to death? Please cite sources. I have never heard anything of the sort.
    Millions was most probably a bit overexaggerated but still:

    Starvation and disease
    Such schemes, however, enjoyed only limited success. The average daily diet of 1,000 calories was insufficient even for small children. Disorders related to malnutrition - scurvy, tuberculosis and dysentery - were common by 1917.

    Official statistics attributed nearly 763,000 wartime deaths [not including ca. 100.000 deaths by starving between November 1918 and June 1919] in Germany to starvation caused by the Allied blockade. This figure excluded the further 150,000[according to other sources 300.000] German victims of the 1918 influenza pandemic, which inevitably caused disproportionate suffering among those already weakened by malnutrition and related diseases.

    Although the blockade made an important contribution to the Allied victory, many of its devastating side effects cast a long shadow over post-war German society.
    Source: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/p...s/blockade.htm
    Add to this deaths by diseases other than the Spanish Flu.
    And the day they sold us out, Our hearts grew cold
    'Cause we were never asked, No brother, we were told!
    What do they know of Europe, Who only Europe know?



    Ancient DNA: List of All Studies analyzing DNA of Ancient Tribes and Ethnicities(post-2010)


  5. #75
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    As a Brit, I would have supported the BUF and campaigned for peace with Germany.

  6. #76
    Anachronism "Friend of Germanics"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zimobog View Post
    The conflict on the Atlantic resulted from FDR's choice to trade with warring European nations: Lend-Lease for our "democratic" allies and Cash and Carry for "non-democratic" allies. Germany tried to enact a blockade against us supplying civilian goods and weapons to Britian (embargos aren't exactly friendly). A German sub was being shadowed by the destroyer Greer and the sub fired on it. After this incident, FDR announced that US destroyers would escort British ships from US waters to Iceland. The Kearny and the Ruben James where torpedoed on escort duty by German subs.

    So from my point of view, Germany's declaration of war makes untrue statements.
    Well, the incident was one which either side could have used to its advantage, if in fact it would have been to Germany's advantage to be at war with the US, in addition to the UK and the USSR, which I seriously doubt was the position taken by Hitler or any of his staff.

    I found this at Wikipedia, so take it as you will, but they are summarising the account of Admiral Harold R. Stark, Chief of Naval Operations for the US Navy, so I trust his sincerity and desire for accuracy more than any politician's:

    ...Upon allegations that the President's statements were misleading, "if not false", the Senate Committee on Naval Affairs inquired with Admiral Harold R. Stark, Chief of Naval Operations, as to the details of the incident. Admiral Stark's report to the Senate Committee "made the President's statement... appear in some respects inadequate, and, in others, incorrect." The following is a synopsis of Stark's report:

    At 0840 that morning, Greer, carrying mail and passengers to Iceland, was signaled by a British plane that a German submarine had crash-dived some 10 miles (16 km) ahead. Forty minutes later the destroyer's soundman picked up U-652, and Greer began to trail the submarine. The plane, running low on fuel, dropped four depth charges at 1032 and returned to base, while Greer continued to "trail the submarine, broadcasting its position."[3] Two hours later the German boat began a series of radical maneuvers and Greer's lookouts saw her pass about 100 yards (100 m) off. An impulse bubble at 1248 warned Greer of a torpedo, and she rang up flank speed and bore rudder hard left. Lookouts watched the torpedo pass 100 yards (100 m) astern and the warship then charged in for an attack. She laid a pattern of eight depth charges which missed, and less than two minutes later a second torpedo passed 300 yards (300 m) to port.

    Greer lost sound contact during the maneuvers, and began to quarter the area in search of the U-boat. After 2 hours, she re-established sound contact and laid down a pattern of 11 depth charges before discontinuing the engagement. Greer had held the German raider in sound contact 3 hours and 28 minutes[3]; had evaded two torpedoes fired at her; and with her 19 depth charges had become the first American ship in World War II to attack the Kriegsmarine.

    These revelations caused Arthur Krock to comment upon the argument "over who 'attacked' whom". Krock stated that a reasonable definition of the term "attack" is "an onset, an aggressive initiation of combat, a move which is the antithesis of 'defense' [, and by] that definition, all three of our destroyers (the Greer, the Kearny, and the Reuben James -- all in separate incidents) attacked the German submarines."
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Greer

    What I find most damning on the side of the Greer, from the German perspective, is that:

    1.) She was in communication with an enemy combatant British warplane,

    2.) This warplane immediately proceeded to drop depth charges. (Was the plane provoking the incident? Given that Britain was desperately trying to get the US into the war on their side, quite possibly.)

    3.) The destroyer did stalk the U-652, which is provocative as well, and the submarine may have taken the depth charges from the plane to have been fired instead by the Greer.

    Let's just say the situation was confused, and both sides had some grounds for claiming self-defense. In any case, had an American destroyer not been in a theater of war where it had no cause to be, the incident could not have occurred.

    The big problem as you say, was FDR... he was desperately trying to get us into the war, and was being as deliberately provocative as possible. He played it up quite well in his fireside chat, in an attempt to rouse more anti-German sentiment among Americans.

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    Senior Member Lothringen's Avatar
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    Hitler himself was zionist !

    The Haavara (Transfer) Agreement was agreed to by the German government in 1933 to allow the Zionist movement, in the form of the Haavara company to transfer property from Germany to Palestine, for the sole purpose of encouraging Jewish emigration from Germany. The Haavara company operated under a similar scheme as the earlier Hanotea company. The Haavara Company required immigrants to pay at least 1000 pounds sterling into the banking company. This money would then be used to buy German exports for import to Palestine.

    The Haavara Agreement was thought among certain circles to be a possible way to rid the country of its supposed "Jewish problem." The head of the Middle Eastern division of the foreign ministry, Werner Otto von Hentig, supported the agreement as a way to concentrate the Jewish problem in one foreign state. Von Hentig believed that if the Jewish population was concentrated in a single foreign entity, such as Palestine, then foreign diplomatic policy and containment of the Jews would become easier.[5] Hitler's support of the Haavara Agreement varied throughout the thirties. Initially, Hitler criticized the agreement, but shortly reversed his opinion, and continued to support it, in the face of opposition, through 1939


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

    The Transfer Agreement was the most far-reaching example of cooperation between Hitler's Germany and international Zionism. Through this pact, Hitler's Third Reich did more than any other government during the 1930s to support Jewish development in Palestine
    ...
    In early January 1941 a small but important Zionist organization submitted a formal proposal to German diplomats in Beirut for a military-political alliance with wartime Germany. The offer was made by the radical underground "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel," better known as the Lehi or Stern Gang. Its leader, Avraham Stern, had recently broken with the radical nationalist "National Military Organization" (Irgun Zvai Leumi) over the group's attitude toward Britain, which had effectively banned further Jewish settlement of Palestine. Stern regarded Britain as the main enemy of Zionism.
    ...
    Between 1933 and 1941, some 60,000 German Jews emigrated to Palestine through the Ha'avara and other German-Zionist arrangements, or about ten percent of Germany's 1933 Jewish population. (These German Jews made up about 15 percent of Palestine's 1939 Jewish population.)


    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.html


    It sometimes good to notice that if FINAL SOLUTION did actually happen, IT WAS NOT HITLER 1ST IDEA. For various reasons zionist policy failed and led NS to the "Evil Path" or at least Bad Path as it resulted to the collapsing of the IIIrd Reich.

    One of this failure may have come, not from the average jew citizen (who, like many of European was renting his flat and, after 1929 crisis had little to leave behind him in Europe) but by a little and elistist minority who was more please about controlling key positions in the World (like the fictional "Protocol" describe) rather than risking their life and money in the "Reconquista of Eretz Israel as Jewish Crusader".

    When you are a "Duke of Finance" and possess everything, you need a lot of faith to remake "Gottfried von Bouillon" gambit: selling your duchy to try to get a kingdom.

    So I keep on my idea that the best realistic possibily (of course better would have been earlier coming back of the Messiah for an era of Peace) would have been to support zionism to avoid Shoah, scorching of Occidental Europe (Karl der Gross Franken Reich) and world wide post WWII anti-germany fellings.
    Just shooting Hitler down would have little effect
    Either Göring or Himmler would have done the same thing,
    either scums like the homosexual Ernst Röhm would have at least driven Germany in chaos making it ready for a Staline to conquer before France or UK would react !

  8. #78
    Senior Member prodeutsch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juthunge View Post
    Millions was most probably a bit overexaggerated but still:


    Add to this deaths by diseases other than the Spanish Flu.
    Well at least you admitted the exaggeration. Regardless, hostilities ended, so should have the killing.

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    In my heart I say yes. When I think of what these men went through, when I think of Stalingrad, I can only say I would hope I could measure up to the task. These were the best soldiers the world has ever seen( and anybody who was anybody at that time did see them, in person, up close) We're talking about every major super power in the world having a go at you at once. Heartbreaking...The good news is that everyone that answers yes to this query should very well know that the war to save Germany, Europe and the entire Western world can be, is and will continue to be waged until the day comes when we again control our own destinies...Amen. If there were 100 men among us who had a fraction of the courage of German soldaten of both World Wars we'd be in much better shape. Forget the time machine. It is our destiny to right the wrongs of today's world, no matter how much of it is connected to the World Wars.

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    Senior Member Schattenjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbensvolk View Post
    If there were 100 men among us who had a fraction of the courage of German soldaten of both World Wars we'd be in much better shape. Forget the time machine. It is our destiny to right the wrongs of today's world, no matter how much of it is connected to the World Wars.
    The generation of frontsoldaten was rised in stern prussian state, not by video games, internet porn, fastfood and overwhelming consumerism.

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