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Thread: Student Riots In London

  1. #21
    Senior Member RoyBatty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wittwer View Post
    The real qustion becomes, "Who else is going to get hammered too reduce the Deficit". In a Liberal Democracy, all classes would have to share equally in the Austerity Programs required to bring the Budget under control and return the U.K. to fiscal stability and health.
    There's a trendy buzzphrase which "Call Me Dave" (Cameron) and his cronies have been throwing around as if they were dispersing confetti at a Rev Moon mass wedding.

    The phrase is "We are all in this together".

    They keep repeating this lame phrase seemingly oblivious to the ambiguous meaning of the term. Whilst they're claiming that "everybody from top to bottom are sharing in the economic pain" (which of course is a lie because the ones at the top aren't) the popular interpretation here is that "Yes, you politicians and cronies are definitely all in it together" (to steal from and shaft the rest of us). LOL

    Yes Dave, you and your pals are definitely in it together!!

  2. #22
    Spenglerian
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyBatty View Post
    There's a trendy buzzphrase which "Call Me Dave" (Cameron) and his cronies have been throwing around as if they were dispersing confetti at a Rev Moon mass wedding.

    The phrase is "We are all in this together".

    They keep repeating this lame phrase seemingly oblivious to the ambiguous meaning of the term. Whilst they're claiming that "everybody from top to bottom are sharing in the economic pain" (which of course is a lie because the ones at the top aren't) the popular interpretation here is that "Yes, you politicians and cronies are definitely all in it together" (to steal from and shaft the rest of us). LOL

    Yes Dave, you and your pals are definitely in it together!!
    It seems there isn't much of a difference across the pond in that the rich are giving everybody else the shaft here too.

    They're definately in it together. No doubt about that.
    National Socialism is the only salvation for Germanics and Europids everywhere. Capitalism, libertarianism, and communism is the enemy.

    National socialized collectivism must prevail over radical individualism.

  3. #23
    Senior Member RoyBatty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D. H. Yeager
    Any country that continues to accumalate debt will become insolvent. That is what happened to Greece.
    Greece became insolvent because corrupt Greek politicians and International Banksters deliberately bankrupted the country through White Elephant projects, unrepayable loans, mismanagement etc. In other words, Greece was deliberately led into a debt trap in order to enslave it to its creditors. The same thing happened to Ireland. Other EU countries are roped in as well because they now have to sign surety for these bad debts to the banks.

    Imo the banks need to be cut down to size and dealt with. Why this isn't being done is an indication how far our politicians are in their pockets.

    The real problem is that our countries, even our countries with "financial problems" always seem to have money for projects and causes which are of no benefit to the country but of mega-benefit to certain elites and well-placed politicians. In other words, there is always plenty of money available for corruption.

    Therefore I don't buy the excuse that countries like the UK "cannot afford" to honour a basic commitment to its population to assist with their education. A country which abandons its citizens to let them regress to virtual serfs isn't a country which prioritises the needs of the population.


    Quote Originally Posted by TrueEnglish
    To think that in the good ol days, you'd get public execution or worse for even insulting the monarchy, nevermind attacking them.
    Depends on which country you're in. As I recall somebody else was doing the executing in France after the corrupt rulers took out a few too many liberties with their adoring subjects.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Wynterwade's Avatar
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    It's pretty funny how different we see things. You guys in Europe are pretty liberal economically and see people being in control of their finances as bad because people are stupid, can't save and must get loans (you all have no trust in the public). So you guys think the government should control more to make it "more free". Well there is no such thing as a free or cheap education.

    There's too many things I don't agree with you guys on to list all- so here are a few of them.

    Additionally, we shouldn't forget why this happens - they want to privatise all fields of society, so that they can control the people through their debt based money in all spheres of life.
    This is the EXACT same thing regardless- there is no such thing as a free education. If you give "free education" you have to increase taxes on students salaries after they have graduated. And the government will go into debt and you have to pay it back plus interest anyways. There is a way to allow the intelligent students and families avoid interest all together- it's called save money and pay for your college yourself. The government should bring the cost down to an affordable level- that way not everyone goes to college, taxes aren't too high, and you can avoid those over consumers of government money. Also as I've said- I have to pay for half my college costs myself- and it will only take me 1 year to pay off my college debt not a "life long debt" as some on here have inferred. Big deal really- it's not the end of the world.

    The key to avoid debt is for parents and students BOTH to save money on their own and pay for their own college. Financial education and the maturity to save money needs to be taught to the point of common sense- and we certainly shouldn't give childish excuses for the government controlling everything.

    School may only cost $10,000 a year at a subsidized state college but then the cost of living because one is not working is another $10,000 at least. A 4 year degree at these schools usually takes 5 years. So 20k a year times 5=
    $100,000.
    Wrong, numbers- College doesn't cost anywhere near that much- read my first post.

    Also something many of you don't realize is that....

    Less government spending= lower taxes= lower unemployment
    Free education (more gov spending)= higher taxes = higher unemployment

    I'd rather penalize those who didn't save their money for their children's college than penalize everybody with high tax rates because "some people are too stupid to save money for their kids of selves". For poor people, we already have need based (0% interest) loans and scholarships.

    If a nation desperately NEEDS to import competent and educated people, there must be huge problem, because usually, those valuable elements should be "home grown"!
    We don't have that many smart people here in America per capita to become professors- which is where most of those imported people work.

    Look at the FED-System and the history of the Bank of England and you see the true enemies of the people and mankind!
    They are the best system we have. If you know of a more efficient financial organization that accomplishes the same goals and stability- I'd love to hear of it and so would any economics professor.

    I always look with a little envy to France.
    All the jackass French protesters are doing is making the economic pie smaller for everybody but giving themselves a bigger piece (they win but everyone else looses). They're really just being greedy and lazy and certainly there's nothing even remotely romantic about it.

    They have every right to rally for their rights - for their future - as well.
    Rallying for higher taxes on their future earnings certainly isn't rallying for their future. It's more of a rally for a short term gain but long term loss but only for people too lazy to save up for themselves or their kids.

  5. #25
    Senior Member RoyBatty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wynterwade View Post
    It's pretty funny how different we see things. You guys in Europe are pretty liberal economically and see people being in control of their finances as bad because people are stupid, can't save and must get loans (you all have no trust in the public). So you guys think the government should control it all to make it "free". Well there is no such thing as a free education.
    Not sure who could have made such a claim? What we believe and what you appear to think we believe have little relation to one another.

  6. #26
    Progressive Collectivist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vindefense View Post
    This can not be emphasized enough. I would rather see the standards for higher education raised at least academically to reduce the number of degrees. If only the best were to attend these Universities I would even be in support of state aid. At present this is not the case, and we end up with an over abundance of mediocre degree holders, who are all presently standing with their hand out.
    What's your problem with higher education for more people?

    I'd say there are different degrees and stations for an academic, so there will be some kind of selection this or that way.

    But I see that some people just have no understanding, idea and feeling for education in a positive and healthy sense being a value in itself?

    Being so Capitalist that the only value they recognise is "how much money" one can earn? Even so if the complete system is totally distorted to an absurd degree, with all the money out of thin air, or even if being produced by practically unimportant goods like gold, being totally manipulated and used and abused by a small elite to control the people?

    Those Plutocrats and their institutions determine by now to a very, very large degree what is of value - in money (!) - and what's not.

    Those things which have no high - often artificial - money value, are worthless at all? So a healthy community, friends and partner, family, own children and group organisation, real education which produces wiser and more responsible people, social care and thoughtfulness, the preservation of natural and cultural values in our societies - all of that will be worthless if the Plutocrats don't glue a price in THEIR MONEY on it?!

    For once in a while I can even agree with Oscar Wilde:
    What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
    It seems the West is full of Cynicism and higher values being no longer appreciated - thanks to the Anglo-Jewish Plutocracy and the English-American Capitalism - rather "no, thanks" to that.

    Is that really the opinion more and more people in the West have and how they want to evaluate such an essential and important part of their culture as science and higher education?

    Such a society is indeed doomed to fail! One can even ask, if that becomes the consensus, who should fight for such a pile of Capitalist crap, because it is no real value but a threat - not just to us Europeans, but all of mankind and the world.

    This monster of Financial Capitalism and Neoliberalism eats real values and you can guess what comes out of it, after it was digested by these corrupted institutions...

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaricLachlan
    People my age everywhere in the western world are herded into universities or trade schools with the clear message that we will not live successful and happy lives unless we spend a huge chunk of our existence pursuing technical and specialist careers.
    In fact, that is what the Plutocracy wants, specialists for their functional elite - no independent spiritual elite, no people which could ask whether the Plutocratic "anti-values" are "their values" - even worse, they might turn with their political-cultural-memetic resistance against the Plutocracy!

    Today, at the universitites, they keep even the resistance in check, because they made up this "alternative fraud" called Cultural Marxism and "political correctness", which appears "critical" to simple minded people, still "on-line" with the societal mainstream - but actually isn't really critical at all, but just a pseudo-religious indoctrination to keep both sides under control:
    - the functional elite lemmings
    - those which are unsatisfied with such a corrupted and superficial crap culture


    People like the Anarcho-Capitalists and Libertarian "orthodox economics" professors Milton Friedman and Murray Rothbard, not by chance both Eastern Jews, make "Anarchism for the rich" and spread nonsensical solutions which many Anglos want to hear, to even privatise and manipulate all of the state faster, whereas the leftist good doers like to hear about human rights and Individualisation - but also state control to prevent all sorts of discrimination and so on, ending in the end of freedoms and alternative politics.

    This is in fact a double strategy - which works together with the salami tactics perfectly so far, one has really to admit that the Anglo-Jewish Plutocracy and their menials did really good, really good to spread that degeneracy.

    Now all those people which are gifted should be transformed into a spirit-less functional elites of specialists, which make their careers as menials of the Plutocracy, whereas only a small portion of the whole population, the children of the spiritual elite, get what we might call "real education" and not just "training for the job".

    Because real education means to really know more about the broader picture, learning something which makes you more wise and the like. That happens too and you can guess who's children being taught more often in the classical sense?

    Do you know what the young mister Rothschild studied?

    History!

    He attended Eton, the English private school that counts 19 British prime ministers as former pupils, and is dating Princess Florence von Preussen, the great-great-granddaughter of the last German Emperor Kaiser Wilhelm II, according to the U.K.’s Daily Mail.

    After studying history at Oxford University, Rothschild joined Lazard Ltd., having been introduced to the world of finance during trips with his father to New York to meet the business elite.

    “I was exposed at a very, very early age to a lot of these big Wall Street tycoons,” he says.
    Talking about money, this Plutocratic dynasty, still one of the top families in the Plutocratic aristocracy, have obviously enough of it at hand:
    A member of the Rothschild lineage that helped bankroll Britain’s war against Napoleonic France, he’s leading a $3 billion takeover that will create the biggest exporter of coal to China.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-1...ties-deal.html

    But oh well, lower and middle class students have to go in debt, in young years already, to just study their "training for the job".

    It is the old Plutocracy of England and America, Money Aristocracy of Jewish as well as Christian, mostly Calvinist sects, descendents and the real Aristocracy too at times in England, which attends the "really good schools" - even international dictators send their children to those, like the (most likely) coming Korean dictator went to school in Switzerland...

    Yes nice, isn't it, the common people must pay for being "trained for the job" and doing the functional slave labour, being in debt from the start, so having no job than to agree on everything being told, whereas the real elite is the only group of people which can afford REAL EDUCATION for their offspring - again, we are going in a totally corrupted and awful Feudal type society of the Anglo-Jewish Plutocracy - WORST they want to spread that degeneracy in all of the world and dumb and breed the masses down!

    Next time riots happen they probably already use "alternative weapons" like "microwaves":
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_uWaXiECkM

    For keeping up "Law and Order" - one has to question: Which law? Which order?

    One has to ask: Who rules the rules?
    Magna Europa est patria nostra
    STOP GATS! STOP LIBERALISM!

  7. #27
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  8. #28
    Senior Member wittwer's Avatar
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    "We are all in this together"

    Yeah Right! I'll believe that "Dave" when you leave 10 Downing Street and the Queen and her retinue leaves Windsor and comes and lives with the rest of us under the bridges...

  9. #29
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    The best way to solve this is to put things back into proportion. Only let about 10% of the population go to college. These are the people that are the cream of the crop. High IQ's and good grades on the placement tests. About 60% can be people that cannot get into college. These people will work in your factories, restaurants, local supermarkets, on farms, or any task that does not require a college degree. 30% can be government workers such as police, firefighters, military, or anything else under government control.

    Depending on the government these numbers can vary, because in a National Socialist government you would have some factories being owned by the state. Nonetheless, people with college degrees need to make up the top 10% of the population or the whole thing is useless.

  10. #30
    Senior Member RoyBatty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    The best way to solve this is to put things back into proportion. Only let about 10% of the population go to college. These are the people that are the cream of the crop. High IQ's and good grades on the placement tests. About 60% can be people that cannot get into college. These people will work in your factories, restaurants, local supermarkets, on farms, or any task that does not require a college degree. 30% can be government workers such as police, firefighters, military, or anything else under government control.

    Depending on the government these numbers can vary, because in a National Socialist government you would have some factories being owned by the state. Nonetheless, people with college degrees need to make up the top 10% of the population or the whole thing is useless.
    IQ and grades are part of the story but not the whole story. In the end success is determined more by determination, hard work and commitment imo. Obviously there needs to be some basic intelligence because without that.... well.... it's just not going to be possible to succeed in subjects of a more scientific nature.

    Be that as it may imo imposing artificial caps on who may study what, at which type of institution is unfair. A reasonable effort needs to be made to make positions available at institutions of higher learning be it Universities, Technical Colleges or whatever. I agree that some kind of balance needs to be struck between the available fields of study and the general requirements of the country but imposing hard 10% caps for this and hard 30% caps for that is neither realistic nor fair.

    Otoh I do believe that (at least here in the UK) there are too many Uni courses being offered which are worthless and a waste of resources. These need to be weeded out. There needs to be more emphasis on scientific subjects and less emphasis on "social anthropology" and "humanities" related subjects.

    A country which doesn't invest in its population is doomed to become a failed state with an enormous divide between the "haves" and the "have nots". Educating the population isn't simply a matter of "selfless altruism" on behalf of the state. It's a process which ultimately benefits the whole country because an educated and productive population are worth much more than an army of serfs who aren't suited for anything but manual labour type work.

    Education benefits everybody. It's an investment in the future. Denying education to those who wouldn't be able to afford extortionate "free market" prices will only reduce the overall competitiveness of the country and increase the gap between the rich and the poor.

    Some people measure "success" in terms of absolute $$$ accumulation. Personally I don't see this as a measure of "success". It is a measure of greed.

    What is more important and a more relevant measure of "success":

    - to outcompete your neighbour / nearest in dog-eat-dog winner-takes-all type competition?

    - to cooperate and work together with your neighbour / nearest in order to improve and raise your community?

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