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Thread: Free Market Capitalism Incompatible With Nationalism

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    No, in the US this certainly would not happen. Because you people over there love rampant "freedom" to screw over everyone - while at the same time oppressing the rest of the world to play along with your screw-everyone-for-some-profit-greed system.
    Who ever said freedom was about screwing people? Freedom allows people to grow and be themselves that can be good as well as bad. It is a most realistic concept. Freedom also gives people the chance to do good for their folk and nation.

    I will say that the biggest problem with this thread that neither Nationalism or Capitalism is defined in the artical that started this. It never said National Socialism it just stated Nationalism( pride in ones Nation is one aspect of Nationalism ).

    Using the Third Riech as a example would not be good as it did not withstand the test of time (no matter if the reasons were right or wrong why it ended) and we should not try again to re-fight WWII all over again.
    Last edited by SpearBrave; Thursday, December 2nd, 2010 at 01:55 PM. Reason: left out word not
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    Perhaps some of the posters feel that anti-capitalist sentiments are being posted. This is not the case. Nobody here are anti work, anti labour, anti reward-on-merit, anti trade for profit etc.

    There is a massive difference between the above and UK / American / ZOG "Capitalism" and so-called "Free Trade" which is a somewhat different beast based on

    - opening, acquiring and controlling markets via bombing and Anglo-Zionist terrorism

    - which invites its own citizens to enter into cut throat destructive competition for jobs and wealth where the strongest, most deceitful and violent ones claw their way to the top of the pyramid and the rest are left behind or trampled

    - where local societies are sold out by the State in cooperation with Corporations who first collected the wealth of those societies and then transferred it elsewhere in order to create greater profits for the major shareholders of the Corporations

    - where the State and Corporations legally rob the general population in order to finance their failures and theft and to finance more wars for more conquest of markets in which to practice their brand of "Free Trade" and "Capitalism"

    - where national assets and utilities like transport networks, power infrastructure, mines, water supplies etc are privatised so that prices can be increased beyond reasonable levels in order to enrich the Capitalist Monopolists

    the list goes on and on and on.

    There is nothing wrong with working for a living or engaging in Fair Trade. There is everything wrong with the vicious brand of American dog-eat-dog capitalism which invites destructive competition amongst the locals and which recruits the locals and non-locals to profit-share in the spoils of American War Crusades to seize foreign wealth and lands, to occupy them and to enslave their populations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpearBrave View Post
    Who ever said freedom was about screwing people?
    Velvet meant that the American interpretation of "freedom" = "Freedom for Americans to screw over the rest of the world".

    My own observations of American policies and behaviour sadly concur with hers.

    We're not implying that the average American acts like this or agrees with these policies but through ignorance and sometimes through self-delusion many buy into these practices designed by their Oligarchs and Politicians.

    Freedom allows people to grow and be themselves that can be good as well as bad. It is a most realistic concept. Freedom also gives people the chance to do good for their folk and nation.
    You're describing concepts which are closer to the true meaning of the term "freedom". This is quite different to "American Freedom" as defined by US Policymakers and Military.

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    I could go on and say really my description of freedom is a the version of American freedom in its original context. Without illegal centralized banking, and illegal government sanctioned monopolies which were not the intent of American freedom.

    Neither central banking or government sanctioned monopolies were the intent of our Constitution and they are still not supported by it to this day. That is a problem we Americans must deal with one way or the other. Hopefully it is a peaceful way.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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    Senior Member RoyBatty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpearBrave View Post
    I could go on and say really my description of freedom is a the version of American freedom in its original context.
    For sure. And as we all understand the original context of that Freedom was very different to what it is today. Unfortunately much changed since the time of the Founding Fathers.

    Without illegal centralized banking, and illegal government sanctioned monopolies which were not the intent of American freedom.
    Yes

    Neither central banking or government sanctioned monopolies were the intent of our Constitution and they are still not supported by it to this day. That is a problem we Americans must deal with one way or the other. Hopefully it is a peaceful way.
    Of course not but no system, no matter how beautiful, well intentioned and well set up is immune to infiltration and corruption unless the entrances are guarded. Once the guards become lax, lazy and corrupt the enemies slip in and from that point they soon set to work corrupting the entire system.

    This has happened in the USA. It has happened throughout much of Europe. The corrupters are very well educated people and very aware of what would happen to them should they fall into the hands of "public justice" which is why they are going to such extreme lengths to entrench their power, to hide themselves behind layers and layers of bureaucracy and to make it as difficult as possible for unorganised average citizens (laymen in other words) to unseat them from power.

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    velvet, you can't preserve anything with error. That ridiculous fairy tale about the motivations of WWII's enemies only serves to make you feel good, not to give you any advice about economic policy. Germany did do good things in the interim years - Hans Hoppe has a lecture about that here. Nobody then or today is fretting about the threat the rest of their economic decisions poses to what you call 'free market capitalism', as A) the present system already incorporates much of the bad of their economy, and B) come on, listen to what people are telling you: we do not have a free market in any of the countries you're thinking of. More socialism in those countries, more power in the state in those countries, would just give more of the economy to the people you should already know are in control of those countries. A socialist flag in the US would just have a Star of David on it.

    It is precisely the free market and hard money and anti-socialist groups that would actually undermine them, are what they actually regard as a threat. As a bonus, the people who support the free market are correct; you should at least be aware that they're actually bothering to try and support it with systematic arguments that are rooted in clear premises, whereas neither you nor your allies have any basis for your beliefs that you can even fend off your own passing doubt with. Seriously, are you serious about this?

    I think its anyway pointless to discuss with someone who is not the slightest interested in the preservation of his own people or the nations they live in.
    You're aware of all the globalist socialists, and also of national socialism. You're aware of all the globalist capitalists, so please be aware that national capitalism is also possible, and that the 'national' has the same relationship in both terms: it means to temper an economic order to the benefit of its nation. We should all be nationalists - this is an easy choice. Whether we should also be socialists or capitalists depends on the actual natures of these economic orders - and if you are educated in economics instead of in feel-good fairy tales, this is also an easy choice.

    If I tell you that a rocket when fired will behave a certain way, you should immediately be aware of what you need to know - physics - to know to affirm or refute what I've said, and if you don't know this then you should not just way what pleases you. If you're not even aware of what you need to know if you are to evaluate a proposition... this is a position no reasonably educated adult should ever be in. But plainly, very many people are in this position with respect to economic propositions. Why do you think so? When Jews benefited from the ruinous hyperinflation of the interim years, when Jew-run companies benefit from corporatist privilege and from the bailouts, when Jews run banks and central banks to do what simple economics can reveal to be pernicious and harmful, when the threat and the lies come at you from the economic sphere -- well of course what you should refuse to learn anything about that and instead tell your real allies on Skadi that they don't care about the race and probably aren't aware of their mestizo problem, because they're obviously real deep in the pocket of the NWO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaricLachlan View Post
    To the capitalists in the thread:

    Tell me what one ought to do with a nation where various corporations under the guise of free enterprise rule your government, congress, and politicians that end up making public policy for everybody else?

    What does a nationalist do when confronted by a government that is ruled by various free enterprise corporations or profiteering international banks that have no intention of allowing nationalism to even remotely take place as they stand firm and hide behind international free market capitalism as opposed to a nationalized economy?

    Is a nationalist supposed to embrace international free market capitalism somthing of which hinders their goal and dream of nationalism or a nation state?
    Organize with others who are competent, get an education, work together and run your own corporation. There will always be winners and losers, strong and weak. Current reality is that Jews are ahead of Germanics and that's why Germanic interest is dumped on.

    One of the best aspects of this system is that it is not horribly oppressive. Anyone with talent and hard work can rise up from the bottom. I'm not saying its practical to think in one generation you can become a real power player but people can move upward and within a few generations if you really are "superior" and have enough people on your side you would be running the country the same as anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaricLachlan View Post
    To the capitalists in the thread:
    You all speak of international free market capitalism as somthing of which that brings fourth the greatest amount of profit and wealth yet this same very system has brought about a global recession not to mention a crumbling infrastructure of the United States as it was brought about by market capitalists themselves who's only concern is profit.

    It has brought about forclosures, unemployment, lost equity, and misery for a great deal of people.
    This is part of the natural economic cycles. If you understood the cycles you would still be doing well.

    But even if you lived in the middle ages some years have bad weather and bad crops, other years better. Even a mercantile will have some good trade years, some bad etc. There's always cycles. But overall the system is healthy.

    The people hurt worst by these cycles are the people at the bottom of society. Though the economy is recovering. Here's a secret anyway: one of the real reasons the economy is sluggish is much of our resources are going to fund wars in the middle east to protect Israel's interest. What can we do about this? See the above answer (empower yourself- if you can't do it then you are inferior- this is a competitive world).

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaricLachlan View Post
    To the capitalists in the thread:
    More recently is has brought about lowered wages for the working class that has not even increased all that much in the last thirty years to even match a livable wage for workers.

    Free market capitalism in it's value of profit at all cost has brought about international foreign immigration in it's quest to find abundance of cheap labor for the workforce for whom it lobbies with in congress for immigration reforms that only favor in letting even more foreigners in to displace those people who are national citizens.

    I thought the general disposition of this website is the preservation of race, culture, and national identity.

    Free market capitalism is a corporation moving it's production to a foreign country abroad so that it does not have to pay local national workers a livable wage through outsourcing.

    Free market capitalism is that of selling the integrity and pride of nation along with it's national vitality for that of a profit of which is always guaranteed to fall into private pockets.
    If Germanics can't compete in a capitalist system then they wont be competitive in a mercantile, communist, etc. system. Jews were on top in Communist russia as well. They weren't able to compete in the Reich either because the Reich was crushed.

    About the lowered wages etc. Here's a solution: your family can buy a business (a gas station, resteraunt, whatever) and pay their own family very high wages to work at these very simple jobs!! Go out and start a business and pay people better wages, or better yet get elected to office and increase the minimal wage. All very easy solutions to the problems you mention without destroying the whole system.

    The problem isn't Captialism or the American Democracy so much (though there should be "standards" as to who can vote) its the people that are running the system, the people that are voting etc.

    I hate the weakness in myself more than I hate anyone else. I hate the weakness of my own family more than other families. I hate the weakness of my own race more than other races. If you want to be successful in life you have to turn the hate inward as an iron forge in order to mold you to be stronger. You have to take an attitude of being successful in any environment, of wanting to compete, and be willing to get bloodied in the process, be willing to fall down 100 times and get back up and if it so happens be willing to lose and die. That's the way I look at it.

    I was raised under the influence of Christianity, progressive liberalism and the general culture and beliefs of 99% of people in the west. It made me weak. Made me a loser. I've been probably more poor and down trodden than you.

    I realized what made me a plebian wasn't so much my I.Q. (which is high), not so much my physical strength (which is strong), but my beliefs!!

    I had been bought up with attitudes and beliefs that made me weak!!

    That's what I'm trying to comment to you- if you just change your beliefs you will start to see a change in life. I don't think you will be too successful if you always look outside yourelf for success though.

    But also the second weakest aspect is my own family and my own race. They don't work together. They always want to be a plebian told what to do, need collective action, strong rules to follow, want to "work hard" for someone else, act selfish, don't enrich their own family or race and so on.

    Social skills is the most important thing to success: being able to work together as a group. The first key would be to social network with people and work towards success. Have an attitude that you can go start your own business rather than work for someone else, solve your own problems rather than expect the system to solve your problems for you and so on.

    Jews sell liberalism to non-Jews in order to enslave them. And christianity is the same thing. They don't believe it themselves. It makes you weak. Socialist beliefs make you weak (other than NS).

  8. #78
    Senior Member velvet's Avatar
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    So, your vision is that the "free market" should regulate the government and then all will be fine?

    The truth is that mob rule guised as democrazy brought us to the point where we are. This is the result when you leave everything to personal opinions of the media-driven public. Great regulation....

    And I really dont know what to think anymore of people who deem their egoistic wants and desires (to race-mix, export jobs and core technology to third world countries with the result that mad men like the North Korean guy have nukes, for some fuckn feeble dollars more in their pocket, import loads of third worlders into our countries for some fuckn feeble dollars etc etc etc) more important than the survival of their folk and nation.

    You people are so frightened of "government control" (which in SpearBrave's version is always a government taken right out of Huxley's Brave New World and Orwell's 1984), that you prefer being controlled into the very last detail of your life by consumerism and capitalists who spoonfeed everyone 24/7 with the latest degeneracy to consume.

    I dont disagree that the current governments must be limited. They dont need only to be limited but removed completely. But what you all seem to ignore is that the current government and big business/banks are the very same people. That, btw, is also the reason why governments right now become more oppressive, to 'socialise' the debts.


    And btw, it is not because I wouldnt understand "free market capitalism" or capitalism in general. I do, very well on top. Not honour, justice or good will direct economy elements, money does. That is why money must be boxed into a system to serve the nation and the people and not only its own interests (to generate profits).

    I also dont get what would be so wrong about it when our sense of honour, justice, industriousness and so on would be 'legally enforced' or why this would be 'oppressive' when it is allegedly anyway what people would do anyway when they just be left completely to themselves and undirected by higher goals. When you reject the possibility that it could be legally enforced you want to do things that are not part of our culture or our sense of honour, justice, industriousness.

    Would you really feel oppressed when you couldnt buy any longer chinese cheaps, toxic clothing from India or other BS like that? And instead our people would be 'forced' to produce products that fulfill the same purpose, just with quality products. Uhhh, how terrible.
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    Senior Member RoyBatty's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that "Western democracy" and "equality for all" are myths. The amount of democracy and equality a person or group can attain is proportional to their wealth.

    The playing field is not level. Without financial and organisational resources it is next to impossible (not illegal, just next to impossible) to compete against the entrenched players.

    The entrenched players are backed by corporations, by oligarchs and by various mafias. Numerous lobbies of these interest groups insure that their employers wishes are met and carried out.

    Politicians belong to these patrons. They act in the interests of these patrons. They do not serve the public, they do not serve "the people" and they do not serve their countries. They serve the interests of their owners and their owners are Internationalist Profiteers who have no allegiance to or Nationalist love for their particular countries.

    The Internationalist Profiteer only cares about profits. Nations, Nation States, Citizens and Workers are nameless, faceless entities with a $$$ value attached to them.

    Every citizen = worth X amount of earning power, Y amount of consumer power and Z amount of social expenditure power. The Internationalist Profiteer can make money on all of X, Y and Z.

    Nationalism on the one hand (meaning love for one's country, culture, national background, people, traditions, values etc) and Free Market Capitalism / Globalisation / Outsourcing as practiced by our countries and the Internationalist Profiteers and Corporations who effectively control our countries are incompatible with one another.

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    Senior Member Paradigm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaricLachlan View Post
    To the capitalists in the thread:

    Tell me what one ought to do with a nation where various corporations under the guise of free enterprise rule your government, congress, and politicians that end up making public policy for everybody else?
    You get rid of the government which helps said corporations retain their power. Simple fucking solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaricLachlan View Post
    What does a nationalist do when confronted by a government that is ruled by various free enterprise corporations or profiteering international banks that have no intention of allowing nationalism to even remotely take place as they stand firm and hide behind international free market capitalism as opposed to a nationalized economy?
    You get rid of the government which helps said corporations retain their power. Simple fucking solution.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlaricLachlan View Post
    Is a nationalist supposed to embrace international free market capitalism somthing of which hinders their goal and dream of nationalism or a nation state?
    You're not forced to buy anything you don't like.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaricLachlan View Post
    You all speak of international free market capitalism as somthing of which that brings fourth the greatest amount of profit and wealth yet this same very system has brought about a global recession not to mention a crumbling infrastructure of the United States as it was brought about by market capitalists themselves who's only concern is profit.

    It has brought about forclosures, unemployment, lost equity, and misery for a great deal of people.

    More recently is has brought about lowered wages for the working class that has not even increased all that much in the last thirty years to even match a livable wage for workers.

    Free market capitalism in it's value of profit at all cost has brought about international foreign immigration in it's quest to find abundance of cheap labor for the workforce for whom it lobbies with in congress for immigration reforms that only favor in letting even more foreigners in to displace those people who are national citizens.

    I thought the general disposition of this website is the preservation of race, culture, and national identity.

    Free market capitalism is a corporation moving it's production to a foreign country abroad so that it does not have to pay local national workers a livable wage through outsourcing.

    Free market capitalism is that of selling the integrity and pride of nation along with it's national vitality for that of a profit of which is always guaranteed to fall into private pockets.

    If that is what international free market capitalism is then it can be damned for it is nothing but damnation and a blight for any intelligent nationalist to see.

    Someone here earlier called me a plebeian as a sort of sarcastic gesture in making fun of my views and my occupation as a factory worker.

    Although I'm somewhat of commoner now I assure you that in the not too distant future through my own hard work and self educational pursuits I'm a middle class man in the making.

    I'm a intelligent commoner or plebeian and one day when I transcend into the upper class in the back of my mind I will never forget where I came from nor the cruelty from those of the top income brackets where I will transcend my class with new ideas that I will bring with me.

    At any rate yes I'm currently a commoner but being that I live as a common man I have the eyes to see that which is uncommon to both the middle and upper classes.

    I get the privilege as a commoner to observe the ills of this world at first hand up close in observation having even expirienced a great deal of it myself where the upper classes aren't able to in comparison with their comfortable insulated world that leaves them arrogant or stubbornly child like.

    Make fun of common people that make up a majority of population of any nation if you must with their common beliefs, goals, and ideals but know that it's the common people who's lives remain destroyed because of recent unregulated international free enterprise to which if they should feel the brunt end of capitalism anymore the common masses will start to revolt in the street where the harmless plebeian as the ancient Latin aristrocratic Romans would once call them will suddenly turn violent into whole entire rebels where you will have national rebellion on your hands.

    I don't expect anybody to pay this post much attention here but it is my warning and future prophecy for this world along with this nation if things continue down this disasterous current path.
    To the anti-capitalist, are you so weak-willed, scared, and pathetic that you must always look to a controlling entity to make laws to keep your spirit and culture safe? I must ask, is the culture even strong at all? If the culture was strong, no authority would be needed to protect the culture from outside forces. Yet, nationalist continually bash what they see as freedom, and talk about how perverse it is, this freedom, to do what you want. Somehow to them this automatically leads to the idea that if we have the freedom, we will automatically indulge ourselves in things we wouldn't otherwise by default, and then by taking part in things outside of our culture (eating at a Japanese steakhouse, for example, which is enjoyable) we are taking part in exotic culture and lose our Germanic spirit. "Bad" things must be made illegal to preserve our culture. Well, if you were so strong, and your influence so great on your folk, you wouldn't need to ask permission for someone to intervene and ban "bad" things.

    I must add that there's a big difference in working along the lines and trading, and knowing about other cultures, than completely assimilating yourself into them. You want to block both.
    Last edited by Chlodovech; Friday, December 3rd, 2010 at 05:42 PM. Reason: Ad hominem
    "If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?" - Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

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