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Thread: Free Market Capitalism Incompatible With Nationalism

  1. #51
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    What's interesting is that these guys here are trying to say that the ills of international free market capitalism that we have now is due to the regulation of capitalism which gots to make one think just how bad things would get even further with a more unnregulated version of it.


    [It would just be better to scrape it altogether in my book.]
    National Socialism is the only salvation for Germanics and Europids everywhere. Capitalism, libertarianism, and communism is the enemy.

    National socialized collectivism must prevail over radical individualism.

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    ^True free market in trade and capitalism is self regulating( supply and demand). As I stated you must first use the correct term what capitalism is, not the marxist verison of what capitalism is. Then you understand that no matter what you are going to have capitalism, unless you have something like a total dictorship. I don't know about you but I don't have any intention of living under a total dictorship. Nor do I think any other Germanic should either.

    So since we will always have capitalism and have always had it. The artical that started this is very false stating that capitalism and Nationalism can not co-exist. That is why I question the intent of it.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpearBrave View Post
    ^True free market in trade and capitalism is self regulating( supply and demand). As I stated you must first use the correct term what capitalism is, not the marxist verison of what capitalism is. Then you understand that no matter what you are going to have capitalism, unless you have something like a total dictorship. I don't know about you but I don't have any intention of living under a total dictorship. Nor do I think any other Germanic should either.

    So since we will always have capitalism and have always had it. The artical that started this is very false stating that capitalism and Nationalism can not co-exist. That is why I question the intent of it.
    I've given you the official definition of capitalism many times here where you are insistent to keep ignoring it of which you keep making posts to which there is this sort of mystic esoteric universal quality or natural state of being when it concerns capitalism that you rather vaguely not to mention very cryptically refuse to elaborate upon beyond a few unsupportive sentences.

    As I stated you must first use the correct term what capitalism is, not the marxist verison of what capitalism is.
    Again not all critics of capitalism are Marxists or communists.

    [Although I'm sure in your mind that anybody that criticizes capitalism must be a Marxist or communist somehow.]

    Where do you get your information from? Glenn Beck? Sean Hannity?

    Fox neo conservative capitalism loving media news?

    Yeah I wouldn't look towards neo conservatist republicanism in America for political accuracy when it concerns the country or the world around it considering that political party in our nation is always in bed with big corporate industry that gives them generous donations for their public representation and mainstreaming of them.

    Always look to a republican to tell you how good international globalization is with the selling of our country to foreign outsiders by a sort of cultic zeal in decreeing how capitalism is good for everyone and that it should be embraced globally by everybody else. Never ceases to fail.

    Than if there is a foreign country that rejects international free market capitalism amongst themselves all of a sudden let it be a republican to tell you how tyrannical they must be as some sort of dictatorship without even knowing anything about the country or having gone there themselves to see.

    Do you want to know why the United States of your youth doesn't exist anymore? It's called international free market capitalism aspiring to globalization.

    You along with a great deal of the public citizenry have been lied to.

    Then you understand that no matter what you are going to have capitalism, unless you have something like a total dictorship.
    Capitalism hasn't been around that long.

    How old do you think capitalism as a economical system is?

    I don't know about you but I don't have any intention of living under a total dictorship. Nor do I think any other Germanic should either.
    We already live under one whether you wish to acknowledge it or not.

    So since we will always have capitalism and have always had it.
    Incorrect. Capitalism hasn't always existed and Germanics let alone Europeans weren't always under a capitalistic economy either.

    The artical that started this is very false stating that capitalism and Nationalism can not co-exist. That is why I question the intent of it.
    Prove to me otherwise that it can. Atleast stand by your convictions and defend them when confronted by opposition.

    From my perspective international free market capitalism is incompatible with nationalism.

    Now since you believe that they are indeed compatible tell me how both systems can be together. I'll await your reply.

    Keep in mind that nationalism requires a nationalized economy somthing of which international free market capitalism isn't keen on doing but instead is largely against.
    National Socialism is the only salvation for Germanics and Europids everywhere. Capitalism, libertarianism, and communism is the enemy.

    National socialized collectivism must prevail over radical individualism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaricLachlan View Post
    I've given you the official definition of capitalism many times here where you are insistent to keep ignoring it of which you keep making posts to which there is this sort of mystic esoteric universal quality or natural state of being when it concerns capitalism that you rather vaguely not to mention very cryptically refuse to elaborate upon beyond a few unsupportive sentences.
    You have not given a accurate definition of capitalism not even once.
    Again not all critics of capitalism are Marxists or communist.
    never said they were, I said they if they start with a wrong definition then they are wrong it does not matter if they are marxist or not.
    Where do you get your information from? Glenn Beck? Sean Hannity?

    Fox neo conservative capitalism loving media news?

    Yeah I wouldn't look towards neo conservatist republicanism in America for political accuracy when it concerns the country or the world around it considering that politicy party in our nation is always in bed with big corporate industry that gives them generous donations for their public representation and mainstreaming of them.
    Sorry, but I don't watch TV, I can't even get those stations were I live, and I don't have satellite either. Nor do I subscribe to neoconservative views. I guess since you have been unable to argue my points you resort to accusations about what I believe and don't believe ....weak real weak.

    Capitalism hasn't been around that long.
    We have already gone over that, yes it has. It is as old as nature.
    How old do you think capitalism as a economical system is?
    capitalism is not economical system, it is just a description nothing more, nice try

    We already live under one whether you wish to acknowledge it or not.
    you may think you do, but I know I do not that is the difference.
    Incorrect. Capitalism hasn't always existed and Germanics let alone Europeans weren't always under a capitalistic economy either.
    I have given you a example of the nature of capitalism, I can't help you fail to understand that no matter how simple it is.

    Prove to me otherwise that it can. Atleast stand by your convictions and defend them when confronted by opposition.
    I have stood by my convictions and I have deafened them very well I might add. I think it is you who been trying to say I have not. Since when you started personally attacking me and accusing me of believing in something I don't you failed in proving your points...see above in your own words.

    From my perspective international free market capitalism is incompatible with nationalism.

    Now since you believe that they are indeed compatible tell me how both systems can be together. I'll await your reply.
    Ever think your perspective may be tainted by the misuse of the word capitalism?

    I think I have proven it to you, do you remember I what I stated about Japan.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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    Here's the misunderstanding:

    you want the government to "serve the interest of the nation". I don't trust that other people will somehow feel a need to protect me and serve my interests. I don't understand how one government is different from the other, they are all composed of people and I can't trust any of them. All people serve their own self interests. That's is the differance in ideology where I guess we just wont agree.

    Here's the key: how do you ensure the government is going to look out for national interests? Very few politicians are not looking out for themselves. And there's no way to ensure this. If the people were trustworthy then we wouldn't need the government. Its rhetorical. We need government to "ensure" that people look out for national interests. Who ensures the government is looking out for national interests? We need the government because we can't trust the people to look out for national interests. But the government is made of people too, if we can't trust those people then why can we trust them once they become governors?

    You just have this idea that some "saviour" will somehow protect you and enrich you. It's not realistic. Many people have been sold on this in the past and it has led to failure. You probably wish Hitler were around to run our nation too. Well let's see Hitler was the worst thing to happen to ethnic Germans as his wars killed more of them than anybody else! He was a failure at the end of the day.


    It doesn't make sense.

    National Socialism was based on Capitalism, exept the government regulated most of the major industries. People could start a business, and work for others in NS Germany. People could own personal property and rent it to others etc. It was very similar to modern Europe's heavy handed government, just run by different people.

    The "socialist" part of national socialism involved the nazis pledge to increase home ownership among Germans, help every german own their own car, increase wages and respect for workers, decrease capital gains.

    Guess what? We have all that in the United States and Europe today. In the U.S. policy is made to increase home ownership. Look into the Federal Housing Association. There are minimal wage laws and worker unions that negotiate high wages. There are capital gains taxes and a progressive income tax system. It would be a little more severe under the reich's system but its the same basic system. National socialism was not based on mercantilism!

    You see prior to the early 1900s free market capitalism involved no worker safety laws, no child labor laws, no minimal wage laws, few worker unions, and the work was much harder and dirtier than today (even worse than previous peasant work on a farm). That's why the communist revolution came about the NS revolution etc. compared to the past all nations are now socialist. The differance is in a communist nation all industries were owned by the government. You couldn't go out and start a business on your own. Even Communist nations now allow people to start businesses and let people buy want they want in markets.

    So you are arguing moot points that were relevant 100 years ago but have been resolved. We have tried all these various system somewhere in the world at some point. We have arrived at the best working system.

    The main differance between now and what the Reich had was the NS system abolished the central banks (so the government directly printed money), tied the money to labor, and encouraged bartering of goods locally and bartered internationally (thus circumventing international bankers- exchangers etc). however it was a free market nation other than perhaps some neccessary war time price freezes which the U.S. and the rest of Europe also did! Along with rationing!

    The idea that there is a big differance between the U.S. market of today and some utopian third reich system is only a fantasy. If you fail in life it doesn't always mean the government is wrong sometimes it means you aren't competitive! "well 99% of people are successful in this system exept me. We need to dismantle the system and find one that works better". come on!

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    I guess thats why being NS I find myself sympathizing with local democratic candidates more often than republican ones...lol.

    Especially with how the economy got flushed down the toilet by Bush and his ilk. People are starting to wake up and see a new kind of "patriotic socialism" as an answer to the questions of tradesmen and working young adults. Walstreet capitalism, globalization and excessive unneeded wars for liberating oppressed rag heads and protecting Jewish national security interests are things that people are starting to agree we can do without.

    Wouldn't progressive taxation and taxation of enviromentally irresponsible businesses be great?
    "What is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil." Friedrich Nietzche

    "Virtue - all virtue - is knowledge."
    Socrates

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    Quote Originally Posted by genius
    Here's the key: how do you ensure the government is going to look out for national interests? Very few politicians are not looking out for themselves. And there's no way to ensure this. If the people were trustworthy then we wouldn't need the government. Its rhetorical. We need government to "ensure" that people look out for national interests. Who ensures the government is looking out for national interests? We need the government because we can't trust the people to look out for national interests. But the government is made of people too, if we can't trust those people then why can we trust them once they become governors?
    There is way that you can achieve both, it is called a Constitution. It is a legal contract between the government and the people that is the law.

    To enforce this contract the people/nation need to have national law stating that the people need to be armed in order to hold the government accountible by force if they have to. Also it might be a good idea that the folk be allowed to choose who gets to run this government through a voting process.
    Life is like a fire hydrant- sometimes you help people put out their fires, but most of the time you just get peed on by every dog in the neighborhood.

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    exactly but that system hasn't worked either because of the people who give up their power. It all boils down to the people. A good people can make any government work, a bad people will screw up any government communist, capitalist etc. That is the one key to national socialism. I mean that was their key idea (what I stated above) so the highest goal of the state should be to maintain the health of the folk and all else follows. What does this mean? Sterilize the stupid, the criminal etc. punish crime, reward the best and encourage them to have babies, provide educational opportunities and upward mobility etc.

    Anyway I think you must crawl before you run. So I find it a bit pointless thinking too much about "how the country should be run" when I can't run a small business, can't run my own life etc. So I think the focus people should have is on how to empower themselves first and organize in small groups. Its just unrealistic to think in such large terms. If I was a billionaire or some leader of a congregation of tens of thousands then it would make sense to be more nationally focused.

    Well Republocrats are the same party. The only republicans that make any sense are Ron Paul and Rand Paul and that's because they are "liberatarians" running as republican. Libertarian is the same thing as a liberal back in the 1800s. I believe the nation is ruled by an oligarchy who controls the media and sets agendas for politicians. So I think voting has very little power in this system because money buys votes and influence. But at least it does have some power albeit its small.

    The best way to gain power is a) resistance. Just refuse to obey something you disagree with. If enough people do this the government is powerless. Take prohibition as an example and the civil rights movement. b) become wealthy and knowledgeable and influence the system with your wealth.

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    Senior Member Paradigm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Paradigm:


    You deliberately ignore that a precondition to my position is to replace the current government including the criminal system they put up, and then to implement another government with other people who's concern is their own folk, who follow a nationalist ideology and so on.

    Your entire rant is completely worthless, because I did state it, though you removed the paragraph from your reply. When you ignore this initial position/opinion, there is not much point to discuss any further about possible alternatives to this.
    Do you realize how impossible it is to literally uproot one government and replace it with another who would have national interest at hand, and at that white national interest? In the United States, it will not happen. Ever.

    You've been ranting on every topic of economics bringing up irrelevant points and spewing ignorance that a few people on this board get duped into believing is true or correct.

    Whatever paragraph I removed was worthless, useless, and took up too much space.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    And its always nice to meet people who claim to know everything, but understand only little. You are one of them, because your dog-eat-dog system is obviously the one you want and love.
    Yeah, I love the American government. You're right, I love that they control more and more each day. They control the media, the market, and what we can do with our own property. Yes, I know everything, and understand very little. Unlike yourself who's a German trying to discuss the American way of life and politics. No, you're never wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Not all Americans obviously agree with that, and certainly Europeans do not agree with that, because we dont like being exploited and cheated all the time, just because someone granted us the right to do the same to others. When it's the American way, fine, your problem, but keep us Europeans out of your shit.
    Mind your own fucking business yourself. I know the type of sentiment that's spreading amongst the people in my country. I don't need a FOREIGNER of my country telling me what to do with my government, and how to handle my country. I want no business in European affairs, but what my government does is out of my hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Which is basically the entire problem. As long as the US government is owned by profit oriented banksters, we will not be able to opt out of this system, because if we would try America would bomb us into the ground once more. But I distract.

    Your "private ownership" is an illusion. Make one bad move and you'll be stripped off everything you ever 'owned' (ie had an exclusive use right to). It is really not more, you're granted this exclusive use right in order to keep up the illusion that it would be possible for you to "own" anything in order to make you participate further in the system whose only goal is to transfer all property to the banks. You work half your life for them anyway, because you take loans, mortgages whatever and pay them four times the worth of whatever you used the money for. One time failure to deliver the money to your slave master in time and the illusion of "property rights" bursts like a soap bubble. Someone slips on your ground and breaks his leg or whatever and the illusion of property rights bursts. And even if you never failed, never anything happened, someone wants your ground and house and they take it, because they can and they dont even need a court.
    Your argument is an illusion founded in misinformation and misconception of reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    There is really no big difference between capitalism and communism. In communism you know that you dont own anything, in capitalism you are made to pay four times the worth for the illusion and still dont own anything. And most of all, both systems are despotic and totalitarian, and both systems are a mean to the very same end.
    Actually, I own a lot of things. Yet, I have to pay taxes on even the things I have fully paid for. That's not a problem of the market, because it's outside the market, it's the state. They get a percentage of every transaction, and don't do anything to deserve it, and half of that goes to paying people who simply do paperwork, and the other half to military and public works. It keeps growing and growing, and the taxes rise and rise, if they drop one thing, they find another. Tax bad food and cigarettes, we'll show them!

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    Makes no sense to me, and even less in the light of wanting to preserve my people into the future, a future that is worth to live. I have no interest to screw over my fellow folk and then whine about that there is no more community sense. I have no interest in letting people live in an illusion at whose end their extinction waits. We are masters of economy, and my interest is to make economy serve the common good. Because real freedom really only exists in a homogenous society which has a common good and higher goals. When that means to limit the greed of some, so be it.

    And, I ask you, what would be wrong about it when profits are directed back to the people who produced these profits in the first place and not end up in the vaults of people who already have robbed the people off of billions and want ever more more more? Explain what would be wrong about it when these profits instead serve the people, the nation and the common good?
    Profits do. A business owner will reinvest his profit back into his company to expand and increase production, and while expanding the company will expand employment in different areas, and as production because more efficient and cheaper, goods become cheaper for those who consume them. The expansion of business and capital formulation can be an amazing thing, because no central planner could ever compete with these types of methods.

    Other than that I don't really give a damn what you have to say and don't really care. You can go on about folk, community, nationalism and all that, but it doesn't mean shit to people when they are just trying to live their life the best they can while trying to avoid all the problems that come from their own government and everyone else. Toppling governments and replacing them with white nationalist systems is the least of anyone's worry who actually lives in the real world. I'm more worried if I'll have enough money to fix my car and pay my bills, or if I'll even have enough to go to college next semester, or whether or not I can live contently without outside forces and common assholes telling me what I should do with my life. I don't sit back and think, "Hey, if this was a white nationalist government they would have my best intentions in their mind!", no, I'm thinking, "This fucking government needs to stay out of my life". This country was founded on the idea of limited government, and keeping the government out of the lives of individuals, but it's been destroyed. I'm more interested in returning to that than anything else.
    "If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?" - Frédéric Bastiat, The Law

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    To SpearBrave:

    You seem to think capitalism has always existed where every transaction of trade and exchange in nature down to every interaction of human beings is a example of capitalism where Adam Smith was merely just writing a observation of existence in general instead of devising or inventing a ideological economical system of trade that later came into history.

    [In other words in history you believe that capitalism doesn't have a beginning or ending ideologically where you even refuse that it's a kind of created invented economical ideology altogether.]

    So I got one question for you.....................



    Was this guy a capitalist?

    [The humanoid in the picture is a neanderthal but if you wish we could also use a example of cromagnon man of the neolithic era if it simplifies the analogy any.]

    Now if you believe ancient human beings to be venture capitalists in history I would like a detailed explanation of your view on the subject in illustrating how.

    If you deny that ancient human beings were venture capitalists I would like for you to give me a historical model to when capitalism arrived within human history.

    Can you meet that challenge delivered to you Spear Brave?

    Also SpearBrave if you believe capitalism has always existed I would like you to tell me how feudalism and mercantilism fits into history as economical systems.
    National Socialism is the only salvation for Germanics and Europids everywhere. Capitalism, libertarianism, and communism is the enemy.

    National socialized collectivism must prevail over radical individualism.

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