Results 1 to 4 of 4

Thread: The Boy Who Was Raised a Girl

  1. #1
    Senior Member Willow's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Online
    Monday, February 21st, 2011 @ 06:09 PM
    Status
    Prolonged Absence
    Ethnicity
    North-Atlantid/Galatizied Cromagnid
    Ancestry
    Scottish/Irish
    Subrace
    Don't know
    Country
    Scotland Scotland
    Gender
    Politics
    NS
    Religion
    Nature
    Posts
    265
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Post The Boy Who Was Raised a Girl

    If it worked this would provide irrefutable evidence that nurture could over-ride biology
    Well they were wrong. Trying to 'over-ride'nature is a bad idea. I can't believe they were so sure of themselves and that their little 'experiment' would actually work!





    When anyone has a baby the first question everyone asks is: "Is it a boy or a girl?"

    Biologically it is sex hormones, physical appearance and the sex chromosomes - XX for a woman, XY for a man - which dictate whether someone is male or female.

    But what happens if you bring up someone who was a boy as a girl?

    There was a case just like this in the 1960s, a case which ended in tragedy.

    Twins Bruce and Brian Reimer were born in Canada as two perfectly normal boys. But after seven months, both were having difficulty urinating.

    Acting on advice, the parents, Janet and Ron, took the boys to the hospital for a circumcision.

    The next morning, they received a devastating phone call - Bruce had been involved in an accident.

    Doctors had used a cauterizing needle instead of a blade, and the electrical equipment had malfunctioned and the surge in current had completely burned off Bruce's penis.

    "I could not comprehend what he was talking about," Janet Reimer remembered.

    "I thought they were going to use a knife. I didn't know there was electricity involved."

    Brian's operation was cancelled, and the Reimers took their twins home.
    Ideal experiment

    Months passed, and they had no idea what to do until one evening they met a man who would change their lives, and the lives of their twins, forever.

    Dr John Money was a psychologist specialising in sex changes.

    He believed that it wasn't so much biology that determines whether we are male or female, but how we are raised.

    "We just happened to be watching TV," remembers Mrs Reimer.

    "Dr Money was on there and he was very charismatic, he seemed highly intelligent and very confident of what he was saying."

    Janet wrote to Dr Money, and within a few weeks she'd taken Bruce to see him in Baltimore.

    For Dr Money the case provided the ideal experiment.

    Here was a child he believed should be brought up as the opposite sex, who even brought his own control group with him - an identical twin.

    If it worked this would provide irrefutable evidence that nurture could over-ride biology - and Dr Money genuinely believed that Bruce had a better chance of living a happy life as a woman than as a man without a penis.
    Lonely girl

    And so, when Bruce was 17 months old, he became Brenda. Four months later, on 3 July 1967, the first surgical step was taken - with castration.

    Dr Money stressed that, if they wanted the sex change to work, the parents must never let Brenda or her twin brother know that she had been born a boy.

    From now on they had a daughter, and every year they would go and visit Dr Money who was keeping track of the twins' progress in what became known as the John/Joan case. Brenda's identity was kept a secret.

    "The mother stated her daughter was much neater than her brother and, in contrast with him, disliked to be dirty," Dr Money recorded at one of these yearly meetings.


    Although, in contrast, he also noted: "The girl had many tomboy traits, such as abundant physical energy, a high level of activity, stubbornness, and being often the dominant one in a girl's group."

    By 1975, the children were nine years old, and Dr Money published a paper detailing his observations. The experiment, he said, had been a total success.

    "No-one else knows that she is the child whose case they read of in the news media at the time of the accident.

    "Her behaviour is so normally that of an active little girl, and so clearly different by contrast from the boyish ways of her twin brother, that it offers nothing to stimulate one's conjectures."
    Suicidal

    Yet by the time Brenda reached puberty at 13, she was feeling suicidal.

    "I could see that Brenda wasn't happy as a girl," Janet recalled.

    "She was very rebellious. She was very masculine, and I could not persuade her to do anything feminine. Brenda had almost no friends growing up. Everybody ridiculed her, called her cavewoman.

    "She was a very lonely, lonely girl."

    Faced with their daughter's sadness, Brenda's parents stopped taking her to see Dr Money.

    Soon after, they did the one thing Dr Money had warned them against: they told her she had been born a boy.

    Within weeks Brenda had chosen to become David.

    He had re-constructive surgery and eventually he even married. He couldn't have children himself, but he loved being a stepfather to his wife's three children.

    Yet what David did not know was that he had still been immortalised as 'John/Jane' in medical and academic papers about gender reassignment, and that the "success" of Dr Money's theory was affecting other patients with similar gender issues.

    "He had no way of knowing that his case had found its way into a wide array of medical and psychological textbooks that were now establishing the protocols for how to treat hermaphrodites and people who lose their penis," said John Colapinto, a journalist for the New York Times who uncovered David's story.

    "He could hardly believe that this was out there as a successful case and that it was affecting others like him."
    Depression

    Now well into his thirties, David had become depressed. He'd lost his job and he was separated from his wife.

    In the spring of 2002 his brother died from a drug overdose.

    Two years later on 4 May 2004, when David was 38, Janet and Ron had a visit from the police. David had committed suicide.

    "They asked us to sit down and they said they had some bad news, that David was dead. I just cried."

    Cases like "John/Joan" - where an accident had taken place - are very rare. But there are still decisions being made about whether to bring children up as male or female if they suffer from what is called Disorders of Sex Development.


    "We now have well-functioning multi-disciplinary teams around the country so that the decision will be taken by a variety of professionals," explained Polly Carmichael from Great Ormond Street Hospital.

    "The parents would be much more involved in terms of the decision making process.

    In her experience, these decisions have been successful in helping children to grow up to lead a happy and fulfilling life.

    "One of the wonderful thing about working with children and their families is that children are amazingly resilient.

    "With support, I'm constantly amazed at what children are able to take on and manage."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11814300?print=true
    Love all living things whose humble task is not opposed in any way to yours, to ours: men with simple hearts, honest, without vanity and malice, and all the animals, because they are beautiful, without exception and without exception indifferent to whatever "idea" there may be. Love them, and you will see the eternal in the glance of their eyes of jet, amber, or emerald. Savitri Devi

  2. #2
    Lost in Melancholia
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Thusnelda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Last Online
    @
    Ethnicity
    Bavarian tribe
    Ancestry
    Bavarian
    Subrace
    Nordid-Borreby
    State
    Bavaria Bavaria
    Location
    Over the hills and far away
    Gender
    Age
    34
    Occupation
    Breathing the forest
    Politics
    Regionalist-conservative
    Religion
    Ásatrú/Forn Siðr
    Posts
    4,381
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    36
    Thanked in
    25 Posts
    Can you please tell us what´s the context of this thread and the linked article, Willow?

    "Judge of your natural character by what you do in your dreams" - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  3. #3
    Senior Member Heinrich Harrer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Online
    Saturday, July 7th, 2018 @ 06:54 PM
    Ethnicity
    German
    Country
    Germany Germany
    Gender
    Religion
    none
    Posts
    786
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    77
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    13
    Thanked in
    4 Posts
    I've read about that story before, and I can't believe that any sane parents would do that to their children. It's bad enough that he was mutilated due to the failed circumcision (not that a normal circumcision is no mutilation in itself, it's beyond me how that jewish practice could become common practice in the white americna population). But then to go on and to fuck with his mind by trying to social engineer him into a girl? Really? Who would come up with something like that? And more importantly how could any parents agree to do that to their beloved children, no matter what some Doctor says? That was clearly a recipe for disaster from the beginning on.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Catterick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Last Online
    Thursday, September 7th, 2017 @ 12:29 AM
    Ethnicity
    Mixed Germanic and Celtic
    Ancestry
    British Isles & Scandinavia
    Subrace
    Borreby x Nordic
    Country
    Other Other
    Location
    Aqua
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Gondolier
    Posts
    2,200
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    20
    Thanked in
    20 Posts
    The only "gender" differences not inborn are superficialities like skirts for girls and trousers for boys. Scotsman wear kilts and women I know wear trousers without feeling they are men: the socially constructed component of gender identity must be worth jack shit.

    Yes Money performed human experimentation: less often commented upon is that he misreported his case studies to provide false evidence. In a way this is more damning than the medical ethics, because the Money types were attempting to put gender theory on a scientific standing.

    (Money also allowed straight men to "transition" based on a sexual fetish, whilst being stricter with actual intersex people.)

    Obviously the difference between sex and gender is 90% semantics. Apart from physical hermaphroditism there is only male and female. Even for them, medicine cannot transform them into something they are not.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 14
    Last Post: Saturday, February 19th, 2011, 10:26 AM
  2. Boy or Girl
    By Mrs. Lyfing in forum Parenthood & Family
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Sunday, April 6th, 2008, 02:33 AM
  3. Your First Girl/Boy Friend
    By Northern Paladin in forum Men, Women, & Relationships
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: Wednesday, January 17th, 2007, 02:56 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •