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Thread: The Genetic Implications of Incest

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer of Thor View Post
    I tend to agree with Hamar Fox as far as the Irish are concerned. I've seen plenty of attractive Irish women, but there are unattractive ones too. There are unattractive people from all European ethnicites, just as there are attractive ones. I certainly do not think that the Irish are the ugliest European people. Come to think of it, I'm not sure which European group I think is the least attractive.
    Well i have travelled in most Euroean countries and as i said,i think the Irish are the ugliest.....Belgians come in a close second.
    Obviousley there are exceptions,but en masse the Irish are a hideous race.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dropkick View Post
    And don't let a bit of bias get in the way of reality either!
    Being English i do tend to view the world through my Anglo Saxon goggles....nothing wrong with that.
    You are probably used to those fawning fops that cower down to the poor downtrodden celts......well im old school English im afraid to say.

    If you want to talk about bias....ask an Irishman what he thinks of the English.

    Quote Originally Posted by Víðálfr View Post
    I've seen with my eyes Gypsies carying with them pale-skinned blonde-haired blue-eyed children, looking totally European, and I have no other explanation for that!!), so I guess that's why some of them, not so often though, tend to look more "European" than others.
    Have a peep at Irish pikeys....

  2. #42
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    Sure is some irrational prejudice showing up here.

    Cousin marriage is not illegal in Australia, and as for genetic problems, the chance is only high enough to be an issue in cases of repeated marriages in a lineage, such as occured in some royal families of Europe, and as is practised frequently in the Middle East.

    I think, as others have stated, that the extreme prejudice against it stems largely from the influence of Hollywood, and goes hand in hand with a promotion of interracial marriage. There's this image of banjos and backcountry American yokels whenever this issue is raised in Western societies. There's nothing rational or scientific about it, although people think there is.

    Having said that, I would discourage it, but definitely not for genetic reasons, or legal reasons. My reason is that it could create unnecessary problems because by and large people would (even if they don't actually believe it shouldn't be done) at least tend to see it as not quite the norm, as pushing the boundaries a little. I think even hundreds of years ago many people saw it like this.

    So I'm not saying don't do it, but someone else would be preferable.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Víðálfr View Post
    I looked there and many of them don't look "like Gypsies". Some of them look more like Slavs (Southern Slavs), for example. Or even like Turks, which is pretty normal, according to the Bulgarian history (see here http://carnby.altervista.org/troe/12-15.htm). You probably believe Romanians are Gypsies, which is false. Many Bulgarians look like Romanians, if you want to say so, but not like Gypsies.
    Well, I don't really want to go off topic with this. I know Bulgarians look more Turkic than Gypsy (I pointed out how Turkic Bulgarians look here: http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php...0&postcount=66)

    When I said Bulgarians look like Gypsies, I just meant they're of very, very low racial quality, and that the Gypsy look certainly isn't impossible among 'pure' Bulgarians when their Central Asian origins are so obvious.

    Some Turkic (note: not necessarily Turkish) looking Bulgarians:















    And a few Bulgarians who could pass as Gypsies:












  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyAtkins View Post
    Well i have travelled in most Euroean countries and as i said,i think the Irish are the ugliest.....Belgians come in a close second.
    Obviousley there are exceptions,but en masse the Irish are a hideous race.
    Who was the anthropologist who proposed that the Irish had Iberian origins? If this was true, it could explain the large gradient between the "ugly Irish" and the ones who have been influenced by Germanic populations (Vikings, etc.)


    Also for the discussion going on about Gypsies, they have their origins in India. Which makes it really hard to compare Romanians and Gypsies when using black and white photographs, since one of the most obvious features telling apart an Indian and European is the pigmentation. Of course, the Gypsies would also have some Dravidian admixture (which is from the Negroid race) and admixture with Romanians couldn't be ruled out, so it would be even harder to classify them into two concretely different groups.


    The Bulgarians would definitely be more Turkic than Indo-European, I believe. As they were probably the hardest hit by Ottoman colonization. Their "looking like Gypsies" could indeed be largely due to pigmentation.


    I feel ashamed for contributing to the off topic discussion, could an admin make a new thread for this racial discussion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaricLachlan View Post
    Not this thread again.

    I think somebody is making obnoxious disgusting threads on purpose in order to discredit the forum in general.

    [A sabotaging provocateur no doubt.]
    Not at all, sir. I'm just one of the many people who have found themselves interested in their cousin and I want to know exactly why it is wrong before I start making myself feel dirty for have these feelings.
    As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice - Adolf Hitler

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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyAtkins View Post
    Well i have travelled in most Euroean countries and as i said,i think the Irish are the ugliest.....Belgians come in a close second.
    Obviousley there are exceptions,but en masse the Irish are a hideous race.
    Well thats your opinon. Study how the mind works and you'll see its like a filter. People tend to see what they believe.

    Could you give a technical reason as to why you think the Irish are ugly?

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyAtkins
    Being English i do tend to view the world through my Anglo Saxon goggles....nothing wrong with that.
    You are probably used to those fawning fops that cower down to the poor downtrodden celts......well im old school English im afraid to say.
    Congratulations! I've no problem with English people. Alot of them are very reasonable people but like every country theres always a few unreasonable people there.

    Quote Originally Posted by TommyAtkins
    If you want to talk about bias....ask an Irishman what he thinks of the English.
    Yeah some Irish don't like the English but a small minority mostly in the North. I'm not English but theres loads of English people who retire to Ireland and holiday here. If Irish people thought that badly of English people I don't think those English people would be coming and living here.

    I bet you think all Irish people dislike the English and I bet you also don't like the Irish which is why you're biased.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropkick View Post
    Well thats your opinon. Study how the mind works and you'll see its like a filter. People tend to see what they believe.

    Could you give a technical reason as to why you think the Irish are ugly?



    Congratulations! I've no problem with English people. Alot of them are very reasonable people but like every country theres always a few unreasonable people there.



    Yeah some Irish don't like the English but a small minority mostly in the North. I'm not English but theres loads of English people who retire to Ireland and holiday here. If Irish people thought that badly of English people I don't think those English people would be coming and living here.

    I bet you think all Irish people dislike the English and I bet you also don't like the Irish which is why you're biased.
    Some English/Irish mixes are certainly very aesthetically successful:






    I don't think there's a world of difference physically between any of the peoples of the Isles. We're all basically descendants of the same tribes (pre-Celts, Celts, and continental Germanics), just in different proportions. I think the 'Irish are ugly' stereotype is fueled by people like Rooney (just like the 'English are ugly' stereotype is fueled by people like Andrew Lloyd Webber ) and the perception of the ugly, inner city Irish-descended chav. My own theory, though, is that the lowest elements of Irish society moved to certain areas alongside the lowest elements of English society, to create ugly babies, which would explain why Irish descendants in rural areas, middle class suburbs or market towns, along with first generation Irish look fine, in my experience.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    People tend to notice and remember things that fit snugly with their preconceptions, and not to notice -- or forget -- things that don't. Even if the chances of, say, mental retardation were exactly the same for children of both related and non-related couples, people would still perceive a difference in the odds as long as prejudiced notions surrounding the issue exist. It's a process known as 'attribution'. People don't remember all the cases of healthy children being born to related parents, or unhealthy children being born to unrelated parents. This is actually doubly true with things like inbreeding, since town gossip/the media/whatever is never going to revolve around a healthy 'inbred' child being born, since that's not interesting.

    If the opposite prejudice dominated: that non-inbred children were unhealthier, people would swear to me that that's what they've noticed, and they'd recount a whole bunch of anecdotes to support the claim.

    I gave you a thunbs up only for the fact that you are correct on the subject of
    preconceptions.I do not know what the figures are concerning birth defects in
    unrelated parents as opposed to related parents.I beleive if we all go back in
    our genaology we would find that a bunch of our ancestors are from incestuous
    relationships.

    Inbreeding in itself does not cause child deformities. It is just that most deformities are caused by recessive (hidden) genes requiring both parents to carry the "bad" gene, and this is more likely when the parents are closely related.

    Conversely, related parents can both have "good" recessive genes, leading to better quality offspring. This can be put to use when breeding livestock or domestic animals.


    While I respect that most of you are for preservation of ones species I think that
    you could find somebody in Germany and England who is from the same tribe as you but not related by blood.I just find something eerie with sleeping with ones own kinfolk.(Brother,sister or cousin)

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWolf View Post
    While I respect that most of you are for preservation of ones species I think that you could find somebody in Germany and England who is from the same tribe as you but not related by blood.
    This is virtually impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneWolf View Post
    I just find something eerie with sleeping with ones own kinfolk.(Brother,sister or cousin)
    This is purely environmental though. If you didn't know about the relationship then there is no biological mechanism which leads you to find your close blood relatives unattractive.
    "Nothing is more disgusting than the majority: because it consists of a few powerful predecessors, of rogues who adapt themselves, of weak who assimilate themselves, and the masses who imitate without knowing at all what they want." (Johann Wolfgang Goethe)

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWolf View Post
    I gave you a thunbs up only for the fact that you are correct on the subject of
    preconceptions.I do not know what the figures are concerning birth defects in
    unrelated parents as opposed to related parents.I beleive if we all go back in
    our genaology we would find that a bunch of our ancestors are from incestuous
    relationships.

    Inbreeding in itself does not cause child deformities. It is just that most deformities are caused by recessive (hidden) genes requiring both parents to carry the "bad" gene, and this is more likely when the parents are closely related.

    Conversely, related parents can both have "good" recessive genes, leading to better quality offspring. This can be put to use when breeding livestock or domestic animals.
    This is almost exactly what I said here: http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php...8&postcount=36 (one post after the one you quoted)

    I don't really see where we disagree. Whether inbreeding is good or bad depends on the genetic quality of the families in question. But in addition to that, the expression of bad recessive genes can also be advantageous in that it exposes them, and allows natural selection to purge them from the gene pool.

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