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Thread: The Genetic Implications of Incest

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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyAtkins View Post
    Watching the telly doesnt count...i said you have obviousley never been to Ireland or you wouldnt have said what you did.
    The Irish are probably the ugliest race of people i have ever had the misfortune to see...en masse.....dont believe all that cods about lovely coleens and men named Shaun battling the "Tans" etc.....the Irish are to beauty what the Scots are to temperance.
    So you think the Irish are uglier than people from Bangladesh?

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    Senior Member flâneur's Avatar
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    When looking at a group of Irish people one can usually assume they have been on the ugly pills.....thats all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWolf View Post
    Buddy,to be honest,I really don't care who you mate with.That is your business.
    I just don't agree with it.I can recall several couples who were kissing cousins
    in the little town that I grew up in and several of their children had severe mental disabilities.
    People tend to notice and remember things that fit snugly with their preconceptions, and not to notice -- or forget -- things that don't. Even if the chances of, say, mental retardation were exactly the same for children of both related and non-related couples, people would still perceive a difference in the odds as long as prejudiced notions surrounding the issue exist. It's a process known as 'attribution'. People don't remember all the cases of healthy children being born to related parents, or unhealthy children being born to unrelated parents. This is actually doubly true with things like inbreeding, since town gossip/the media/whatever is never going to revolve around a healthy 'inbred' child being born, since that's not interesting.

    If the opposite prejudice dominated: that non-inbred children were unhealthier, people would swear to me that that's what they've noticed, and they'd recount a whole bunch of anecdotes to support the claim.

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    Senior Member Hammer of Thor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyAtkins View Post
    When looking at a group of Irish people one can usually assume they have been on the ugly pills.....thats all.
    I tend to agree with Hamar Fox as far as the Irish are concerned. I've seen plenty of attractive Irish women, but there are unattractive ones too. There are unattractive people from all European ethnicites, just as there are attractive ones. I certainly do not think that the Irish are the ugliest European people. Come to think of it, I'm not sure which European group I think is the least attractive.

    Hammer of Thor

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    Senior Member Ragnar Lodbrok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    People tend to notice and remember things that fit snugly with their preconceptions, and not to notice -- or forget -- things that don't. Even if the chances of, say, mental retardation were exactly the same for children of both related and non-related couples, people would still perceive a difference in the odds as long as prejudiced notions surrounding the issue exist. It's a process known as 'attribution'. People don't remember all the cases of healthy children being born to related parents, or unhealthy children being born to unrelated parents. This is actually doubly true with things like inbreeding, since town gossip/the media/whatever is never going to revolve around a healthy 'inbred' child being born, since that's not interesting.

    If the opposite prejudice dominated: that non-inbred children were unhealthier, people would swear to me that that's what they've noticed, and they'd recount a whole bunch of anecdotes to support the claim.
    Your using coincidences to disprove a fact of life that any dog or horse breeder or geneticist will tell is a fact of life. People seem to use this ploy to prove their unprovable dogmas time and time again, and yes their faulty philosophies...(Immanuel Kant.)
    "What is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil." Friedrich Nietzche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar Lodbrok View Post
    Your using coincidences to disprove a fact of life that any dog or horse breeder or geneticist will tell is a fact of life. People seem to use this ploy to prove their unprovable dogmas time and time again, and yes their faulty philosophies...(Immanuel Kant.)
    It's not a fact of life. Show me evidence to prove that cousins produce a significantly higher number of deformed offspring. The reason inbreeding can cause genetic problems is that a recessive gene is only expressed when present in both parents, which is more likely when both parents are of the same stock. But recessive genes aren't necessarily negative. Recessive genes include blue eyes, blonde hair, fair skin etc. as Velvet stated. Another point she touched on was that evolution grinds almost to a halt when there are no limits to the size or stability of a breeding population. Consider a new trait, a mutation that greatly increases the organism's chance of survival. If that mutation develops in a small, insular community, in a matter of a few generations, almost the entire population will have it, the originator of the mutation being the ancestor of everyone within that population.

    Now imagine the same mutation occurs in the modern world. Since there are virtually no boundaries to the breeding population, it'll take hundreds of generations before the originator of the gene is the ancestor of most members of that population, which means it takes countless generations for any mutation to become stabilised in a population -- by which time the smaller population will not only have the stabilised trait, but that trait will also have undergone hundreds of generations of selective refinement, and the gene may have even generated a concatenation of further positive mutations. Moreover, if the trait is recessive, then in the larger population, it may almost never happen that two carriers of the gene mate. Bottlenecking is integral to biological evolution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnar Lodbrok View Post
    Your using coincidences to disprove a fact of life that any dog or horse breeder or geneticist will tell is a fact of life. People seem to use this ploy to prove their unprovable dogmas time and time again, and yes their faulty philosophies...(Immanuel Kant.)
    Do dog and horse breeders actually cross check for cousin relationships, or do they simply try to prevent breeding between siblings and parents breeding with their children? I'm pretty sure they only check for the latter two.

    The notion that mating between cousins leads to defective babies is tantamount to superstition. It's unfortunate that so many people are so willing to believe things despite clear evidence to the contrary.

    Here's one famous in-breeder:

    During his stay at Fort Bliss, [Werner] von Braun mailed a marriage proposal to 18-year-old Maria Luise von Quistorp, his cousin on his mother's side. On March 1, 1947, having received permission to go back to Germany and return with his bride, he married her in a Lutheran church in Landshut, Germany.
    I don't think anyone blinked an eye at such marriages until the advent of Jim Crow liberalism and the movie Deliverance.
    — Always outnumbered but never outclassed —

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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyAtkins View Post
    Watching the telly doesnt count...i said you have obviousley never been to Ireland or you wouldnt have said what you did.
    The Irish are probably the ugliest race of people i have ever had the misfortune to see...en masse.....dont believe all that cods about lovely coleens and men named Shaun battling the "Tans" etc.....the Irish are to beauty what the Scots are to temperance.
    And don't let a bit of bias get in the way of reality either!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer of Thor View Post
    I tend to agree with Hamar Fox as far as the Irish are concerned. I've seen plenty of attractive Irish women, but there are unattractive ones too. There are unattractive people from all European ethnicites, just as there are attractive ones. I certainly do not think that the Irish are the ugliest European people. Come to think of it, I'm not sure which European group I think is the least attractive.

    Hammer of Thor
    In Britian the Irish were always protrayed as being primitive and even Ape like. That propaganda still exists in some parts. On this site a few years back we had OneEnglishNorman blaming the Irish people for darkening the English race through mixing. Unbelievable stuff from a poster who seemed to be a sensible poster in many ways.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    They look like Gypsies because Bulgarians look like Gypsies. View this:

    http://racialreality.110mb.com/bulgarian.html
    I looked there and many of them don't look "like Gypsies". Some of them look more like Slavs (Southern Slavs), for example. Or even like Turks, which is pretty normal, according to the Bulgarian history (see here http://carnby.altervista.org/troe/12-15.htm). You probably believe Romanians are Gypsies, which is false. Many Bulgarians look like Romanians, if you want to say so, but not like Gypsies.

    Gypsies look like this:



    or like this:



    However, we probably need a more accurate classification here, to avoid any misunderstandings. It looks like there were cases when Gypsies mixed with people from their surroundings (especially by taking "outsider" females, or by "adopting" abandoned children - I've seen with my eyes Gypsies carying with them pale-skinned blonde-haired blue-eyed children, looking totally European, and I have no other explanation for that!!), so I guess that's why some of them, not so often though, tend to look more "European" than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamar Fox View Post
    Bulgarians:

    It seems like one common thing one may find between Bulgarians and Gypsies is the Mediterranean appearance, but this doesn't make Gypsies European, and none the less does it make Bulgarians Gypsies.

    I think those in the above example look more like the man in this example



    who is Romanian (source http://carnby.altervista.org/troe/p-26.htm),

    rather than like the man in the following example



    who is Gypsy (source http://carnby.altervista.org/troe/p-19.htm).

    Other typical examples of Gypsies:











    (the same source http://carnby.altervista.org/troe/p-19.htm )

    I hope one can see the difference now.
    Die Farben duften frisch und grün... Lieblich haucht der Wind um mich.

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    I read somewhere that one-quarter of all of the marriages in the world take place between first cousins. On a British news magazine, it was stated that over eighty percent of the birth defects in that country occur in South Asian families. It's not unusual at all for those people to marry their first cousins; it's expected. We can all assume that at some point in our ancestry/heritage, two first cousins had children with each other. I dated a man a number of years ago who was of Irish and Italian descent who told me that his Italian-American father was met with strong disapproval by his family for not marrying a first cousin. Now, that was an Italian family. I don't know if Germanic societies traditionally encouraged first cousin marriage. Another thing; you can assume that the physical traits that are unique to each ethnic group on the planet are the result of a certain degree of inbreeding. That's why Swedes look the way they do, and the Italians look the way they do.
    I would strongly encourage the starter of this thread to look elsewhere for companionship, though. If you two were to have children, I mean come on. Things could be disastrous.

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