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Thread: How Jewry Works : Gill Marcus

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    Arrow How Jewry Works : Gill Marcus

    How Jewry works demonstrated at the example of Gill Marcus.

    This topic may fit into more then one section, as it touches upon politics, human behavior, cultural anthropology and history.

    From time to time issues regarding the Jews do come up. Often the question arises, whether they one should oppose them, embrace them or simply be neutral. Also whether "being Jewish" is about religion, ethnicity or race, whether Jews act harmful or whether "Antisemitism" is based on irrational myth.

    So why not read what they Jews themselves got to say about one of their own. Let me do that using Gill Marcus as an example and then deal with what mentioned in the article to explain how Jewry works:

    Gill Marcus and her family were actively involved in the socalled "struggle against Apartheid" meaning that they were active and even prominent members of the ANC and the South African Communist Party.





    “While I am not religious, I’m certainly very conscious and proud of being Jewish. Perhaps there is more of an awareness now of the traditions and rituals. But for me, the essence of my Jewishness is in trying to live a life that has value.”
    In her service to her country and the contribution she has made to the functioning of a democratic society, Gill Marcus has certainly lived a life of value. Both in London and in South Africa, her adult life has been devoted to the cause of justice and democracy and her vigilance and constancy have done much to further those ends.
    Gill Marcus, who never married, was born in Johannesburg in 1949. Her grandparents were from Lithuania but her parents, Molly and Nathan, were born in South Africa. Both her parents were members of the South African Communist Party and from an early age Gill was made aware of the iniquities of apartheid; the Marcus home, open to people across the color line, was very different from that of the average white South African household.
    She enrolled for a Bachelor of Commerce degree at the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg but did not become involved in student politics “because it didn’t seem like it could achieve anything.” Her studies were interrupted when she left South Africa for London in 1969 together with her parents, two sisters and a brother but she completed her degree by correspondence with the University of South Africa.
    In London Gill ran the family salad bar in Knightsbridge. She joined the Communist Party and the African National Congress (ANC) and worked for the latter’s information-gathering department, becoming deputy secretary for information and, for fifteen years, editor of a news bulletin covering events in South Africa. Agents of the South African government were active in London, engaging in hit squad activities and acts of sabotage that included the bombing of the ANC offices in London.
    When the ANC was unbanned in 1990 Gill Marcus returned to South Africa after spending twenty-one years in exile. She was among the first ANC members to return, having been asked by the organization to help set up structures, particularly a communications infrastructure, to prepare for the transition to democracy. She ran the ANC’s Department of Information and Publicity until 1994 and played a leading role in determining media policies for the ANC in the run-up to the first democratic elections in 1994.
    She was elected to Parliament in the April 1994 election. After twenty-five years in communication and information, Gill wanted to do something different, something more practical in the area of delivery. Moving from the political to the economic arena, she became chairperson of the Joint Standing Committee on Finance in the National Assembly. Under her leadership, the Committee developed a reputation for accessibility, transparency and fearlessness in criticizing departmental and individual inefficiency.
    Having proved herself in the erstwhile male province of finance, she became Deputy Finance Minister in 1996 and then Deputy Governor of the South African Reserve Bank in 1999. Her success in this area in a very male-oriented society was significant in terms of striking a blow for gender equality in the early years of democracy in South Africa. Although committed to the principle of gender equality, without any taint of tokenism, she is not an overt activist in the field.
    In all her political and public activities Gill Marcus established a widely respected reputation for her extremely conscientious approach to her work and her efficient and effective administrative abilities. With a very deeply held belief in the potential of South Africa and its people, she is totally committed to the development of a flourishing civil society that protects the right to differ without incitement to violence or racial hatred.
    While conscious and proud of her Jewish heritage, Gill Marcus is not religious in any active sense. She has always understood the Jewish tradition to be on the side of humanity against oppression and the essence of her Jewishness lies in trying to live a life that has value by making a contribution to others. The Holocaust had a profound effect on her from an early age and she believes that, although individual racism cannot be eradicated, institutional structures can prevent that racism from becoming too destructive or dangerous.
    http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/marcus-gill
    Let me point out a few issues here:
    - The article clearly states that you do not need to be religious (i.e. practice Judaism) to be a Jew or have a Jewish identity.
    - Communism is just fine it seems and it's not in conflict with civility or "democratic" society. Note that this is coming from a main-stream Jewish publication and isn't an isolated view.
    - Ms. Marcus was a member of the Communist Party and so were here parents. In the context of the article this is even implied as an expression of Jewish identity.
    - She worked in information and finance related areas on prominent positions.
    - Note the profound influence of "the Holocaust".
    "And God proclaims as a first principle to the rulers, and above all else, that there is nothing which they should so anxiously guard, or of which they are to be such good guardians, as of the purity of the race. They should observe what elements mingle in their offspring;..." Plato Politeia

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    Both her parents were members of the South African Communist Party and from an early age Gill was made aware of the iniquities of apartheid;

    Wonder if she was made aware of the apartheid in Israel.....and what she did about it.

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    Yes, the obnoxious Ms. Marcus certainly ticks all the required boxes!

    However, for each one of her ilk there are a dozen or so others covering her back by pointing out that many non-Jews also work in finance, believe in democracy, fight for gender equality, are Communists, anti-racists etc…

    I’m sure that such apologists will appear on this thread before long, thus giving us all a chance to admire their obfuscation at work

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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyAtkins View Post
    Both her parents were members of the South African Communist Party and from an early age Gill was made aware of the iniquities of apartheid;

    Wonder if she was made aware of the apartheid in Israel.....and what she did about it.
    That's a bit out of her time. But I'm not aware that she did say anything about it. There was however a Ronnie Kasrils, another Jewish Communist, who made quite critical remarks about Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godwinson View Post
    Yes, the obnoxious Ms. Marcus certainly ticks all the required boxes!
    She's not the only one that does, just that she is far more nice to be classified in the physical anthropology section.
    Quote Originally Posted by Godwinson View Post
    However, for each one of her ilk there are a dozen or so others covering her back by pointing out that many non-Jews also work in finance, believe in democracy, fight for gender equality, are Communists, anti-racists etc…
    ... Just that hardly any mainstream gentile publication would celebrate one of their own as a Communist.
    And its not about the occurrence, but about the frequency. Check how many Jews are/were amongst those involved in the Anti-Apartheid struggle.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...heid_activists
    If you limit it to the Communist the proportions become even more clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godwinson View Post
    I’m sure that such apologists will appear on this thread before long, thus giving us all a chance to admire their obfuscation at work
    I dare them
    "And God proclaims as a first principle to the rulers, and above all else, that there is nothing which they should so anxiously guard, or of which they are to be such good guardians, as of the purity of the race. They should observe what elements mingle in their offspring;..." Plato Politeia

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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyAtkins
    Wonder if she was made aware of the apartheid in Israel.....and what she did about it.
    Such an evil word for the nice and caring Jews, how dare you

    Nah, Israel doesnt have Apardheid, they just are National Socialists, and as such, you can genocide other people as much as you want. Just when Whites do it, it is evil
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

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    "Gill wanted to do something different, something more practical in the area of delivery. Moving from the political to the economic arena",


    Surprise....surprise.....the jew wanted to be near the geld.I wonder if this was her own idea or she was told to get near the geld by her real masters back in Tel Aviv.
    Im sure running that sandwich shop in Knightsbridge honed her economic skills to a fine edge........although managing Winnie Mandelas debts would make anyone an economic genius in no time flat.

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    I posted this in another thread, it is glaringly obvious that the jewish community opposed apartheid because black rule is preferable to white rule, it is simpiler for jews to make money of ignoranant negroids then of Germanics... However it is far easier to exploit a country if they run it themselves, thus "they" are the official opposition whom continue luring more gentiles into the hell which is jewish democrazy... Young Afrikaners are assisting the genocide against their own people like faithful Sabbat-Goi whether they know it or not, as long as they increase their personal standing they will collaborate in just about anything...

    Here are some quotes I found on Wikipedia the other day and thought it corroborates some points made here by Horagalles.


    ...There is a substantial, mostly Ashkenazic Jewish community in South Africa. These Jews arrived mostly from Lithuania prior to World War II, though others have origins in Britain, Germany, and Eastern Europe. To a lesser extent, Sephardic Jews, primarily originating from the Island of Rhodes also settled in sub-Saharan Africa, in territories such as the Belgian Congo. Subsequently, members of these Jewish communities migrated to South Africa. Connected to them were the small European Jewish communities in Namibia (South West Africa), Zimbabwe (Southern Rhodesia), Lesotho (Basutuland), Swaziland, Botswana (Bechuanaland), Zaire (Belgian Congo, mostly Sephardim [2]), Kenya, Malawi (Nyasaland), Zambia (Northern Rhodesia) all of which had synagogues and even formal Jewish schools usually based in the capitals of these countries...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Jews

    In an ethnic sense, an Ashkenazi Jew is one whose ancestry can be traced to the Jews of Central and Eastern Europe. For roughly a thousand years, the Ashkenazim were a reproductively isolated population in Europe, despite living in many countries, with little inflow or outflow from migration, conversion, or intermarriage with other groups, including other Jews. Human geneticists have identified genetic variations that have high frequencies among Ashkenazi Jews, but not in the general European population. This is true for patrilineal markers (Y-chromosome haplotypes) as well as for matrilineal markers (mitochondrial haplotypes).[11]

    Since the middle of the 20th century, many Ashkenazi Jews have intermarried, both with members of other Jewish communities and with people of other nations and faiths, while some Jews have also adopted children from other ethnic groups or parts of the world and raised them as Jews. Conversion to Judaism, rare for nearly 2,000 years, has become more common. Jewish women and families who choose artificial insemination often choose a biological father who is not Jewish, to avoid common autosomal recessive genetic diseases.

    A study by Michael Seldin, a geneticist at the University of California Davis School of Medicine, found Ashkenazi Jews to be a clear, relatively homogenous genetic subgroup. Strikingly, regardless of the place of origin, Ashkenazi Jews can be grouped in the same genetic cohort — that is, regardless of whether an Ashkenazi Jew's ancestors came from Poland, Russia, Hungary, Lithuania, or any other place with a historical Jewish population, they belong to the same ethnic group. The research demonstrates the endogamy of the Jewish population in Europe and lends further credence to the idea of Ashkenazi Jews as an ethnic group. Moreover, though intermarriage among Jews of Ashkenazi descent has become increasingly more common, many Ultra-Orthodox Jews, particularly members Hasidic or Hareidi sects, continue to marry exclusively fellow Ashkenazi Jews. This trend keeps Ashkenazi genes prevalent and also helps researchers further study the genes of Ashkenazi Jews with relative ease. It is noteworthy that these Ultra-Orthodox Jews often have extremely large families.

    ...

    Historical records show evidence of Jewish communities north of the Alps and Pyrenees as early as the 8th and 9th century. By the end of the first millenum, Jewish populations were well-established in Western Europe, later followed the Norman Conquest into England in 1066, and settled in many cities of the Rhine area by the end of the 11th century. With the onset of the Crusades, and the expulsions from England (1290), France (1394), and parts of Germany (15th century), Jewish migration pushed eastward into Poland, Lithuania, and Russia. Over this period of several hundred years, some have suggested, Jewish economic activity was focused on trade, business management, and financial services, due to several presumed factors: Christian European prohibitions restricting certain activities by Jews, preventing certain financial activities (such as "usurious" loans)[25] between Christians, high rates of literacy, near universal male education, and ability of merchants to rely upon and trust family members living in different regions and countries.
    By the 15th century, the Ashkenazi Jewish communities in Poland were the largest Jewish communities of the Diaspora.[26] This area, which eventually fell under the domination of Russia, Austria, and Prussia (Germany), would remain the main center of Ashkenazi Jewry until the Holocaust.
    The answer to why there was so little assimilation of Jews in Eastern Europe for so long would seem to lie in part in the probability that the alien surroundings in Eastern Europe were not conducive, though contempt did not prevent some assimilation. Furthermore, Jews lived almost exclusively in shtetls, maintained a strong system of education for males, heeded rabbinic leadership, and scorned the life-style of their neighbors; and all of these tendencies increased with every outbreak of antisemitism
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi

    They state that they scorned their neighbours life-style, and blame the getiles anti-semitism for the increased fervour with which jews hate gentiles, this just sounds back to front, I’ll put it down to Hubris...

    Although the Jewish community peaked in the 1970s (at around 120,000[1]), about 70,000 mostly nominally Orthodox, remain in South Africa. Despite low intermarriage rates (around 7%[1]), approximately 1,800 Jews leave the country for economic reasons every year, mainly to Israel, Australia, Canada and the United States. The Jewish community in South Africa is currently the largest in Africa, and, although shrinking due to emigration, it remains one of the most nominally Orthodox communities in the world. The current Chief Rabbi, Dr, Warren Goldstein (2008), has been widely credited for initiating a "Bill of Responsibilities" which the government has incorporated in the national school curriculum. The Chief Rabbi has also pushed for community run projects to combat crime in the country. The community has become more observant and in Johannesburg, the largest centre of Jewish life, with 66 000 Jews, there is a high number and density of Kosher restaurants and religious centres. In politics, the Jewish community continues to have influence, particularly in leadership roles. Currently, the sole national Jewish newspaper, with a circulation of about 40,000, is the South African Jewish Report.[11] In 2008 a Jewish Radio Station, Chai FM, commenced broadcasting in Johannesberg, and also broadcasting on the internet to the large South African "diaspora" [12].
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...n_South_Africa
    Although the word "Commando" was wrongly used to describe all Boer soldiers, a commando was a unit formed from a particular district. None of the units was organized in regular companies, battalions or squadrons. The Boer commandos were individualists who were difficult to control, resented formal discipline or orders, and earned a British jibe that"every Boer was his own general".

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    initiating a "Bill of Responsibilities" which the government has incorporated in the national school curriculum
    What does this bill contain? Can you please post more on this?
    Ein Leben ist nichts, deine Sprosse sind alles
    Aller Sturm nimmt nichts, weil dein Wurzelgriff zu stark ist
    und endet meine Frist, weiss ich dass du noch da bist
    Gefürchtet von der Zeit, mein Baum, mein Stamm in Ewigkeit

    my signature

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    Quote Originally Posted by velvet View Post
    What does this bill contain? Can you please post more on this?
    South African schoolchildren will be taught a Bill of Responsibilities along with the Bill of Rights, Education Minister Naledi Pandor said in Pretoria on Monday.

    Unveiling the Bill of Responsibilities, Pandor said: "It is to say how we exercise rights, with the understanding that rights come with responsibility."

    The Bill, which has been largely drawn up by the National Religious Leaders' Forum, contains responsibilities mirroring those contained in the Bill of Rights. It includes the responsibilities of ensuring the right to equality, human dignity, life, family, parental care and education.

    It also includes responsibilities to ensure the right to work, freedom and security, property, freedom of religion and a safe environment.

    "I accept the call to responsibility that comes with the many rights and freedoms that I have been privileged to inherit from the sacrifice and suffering of those who came before me," the preamble reads.

    "I appreciate that the rights enshrined in the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa are inseparable from my duties and responsibilities to others. Therefore I accept that with every right comes a set of responsibilities."

    Although the Bill will not be a legal document, it will be taught to children as part of the life-skills curriculum, Pandor said.

    She said posters containing the Bill of Responsibilities will be sent to all schools, universities and colleges to be displayed in classrooms.

    "[It is] to really help all of us engage much more on how we deal with these freedoms, how we deal with these rights," Pandor said.

    "This is an educational, inspirational document -- it's a document that's there for discussion and debate and inspires to educate," said Chief Rabbi Warren Goldstein, of the National Religious Leaders' Forum.

    He said while the Bill of Rights has created a culture of human rights in South Africa, a culture of responsibility is also needed.

    "It's not only about what I can take; it's what I can give. It's not only about me; it's about those around me because rights are what I'm entitled to and responsibilities are what other people are entitled to," he said. -- Sapa
    http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-02-...sponsibilities

    Bill of Responsibilities
    I would also like to report on progress on the project of the Bill of Responsibilities, which is a document that articulates the responsibilities that flow from the Bill of Rights. At the last conference I reported on this project, which I had then initiated. Since then, at a press conference, the Minister of Education and I announced the official launching of this project in February 2008. There was excitement in the media as well as the broader public. It can be a transformative project for the country. The purpose of the Bill of Responsibilities is to generate and create a culture of responsibility in the country. Part of the project has been to distribute a copy of the poster of the Bill of Responsibilities to all the schools in the country. The Department of Education informs me that this has been done.

    The main aim of the project is to teach the values of the Bill of Responsibilities as part of the school curriculum. A teaching manual has been developed and the Department of Education intends to begin a process of training teachers nationally. I have approached ORT to assist with this project. They have put together a plan for teacher training and school management training in the values and principles of the Bill of Responsibilities for seventy schools across Ivory Park, Soweto and Alexandra. This plan will, please G-d, be implemented very soon.
    http://www.chiefrabbi.co.za/2009/08/...rabbis-report/

    From the same link:

    Israel and Anti-Semitism
    During the Gaza War the situation here in South Africa became very heated. It was necessary for me to write articles and be interviewed on radio in order to defend the reputation of State of Israel, which is important to do for the following reasons: to fulfill the mitzvah of Kiddush Hashem; to fight the injustice of the unfair criticism of Israel and to give our community strength. A prayer meeting was held and was very well attended. Prayer is a key Torah response to the situation. Our prayers through G-d’s will can change the world.
    The Jewish Board of Deputies has proceeded the Bill of Responsibilities for school. The Department of Education will launch the Bill.
    http://www.anc.org.za/caucus/index.p...10/sp0730.html
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Although the word "Commando" was wrongly used to describe all Boer soldiers, a commando was a unit formed from a particular district. None of the units was organized in regular companies, battalions or squadrons. The Boer commandos were individualists who were difficult to control, resented formal discipline or orders, and earned a British jibe that"every Boer was his own general".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horagalles View Post
    How Jewry works demonstrated at the example of Gill Marcus.

    This topic may fit into more then one section, as it touches upon politics, human behavior, cultural anthropology and history.

    From time to time issues regarding the Jews do come up. Often the question arises, whether they one should oppose them, embrace them or simply be neutral. Also whether "being Jewish" is about religion, ethnicity or race, whether Jews act harmful or whether "Antisemitism" is based on irrational myth.

    So why not read what they Jews themselves got to say about one of their own. Let me do that using Gill Marcus as an example and then deal with what mentioned in the article to explain how Jewry works:

    Gill Marcus and her family were actively involved in the socalled "struggle against Apartheid" meaning that they were active and even prominent members of the ANC and the South African Communist Party.


    Let me point out a few issues here:
    - The article clearly states that you do not need to be religious (i.e. practice Judaism) to be a Jew or have a Jewish identity.
    - Communism is just fine it seems and it's not in conflict with civility or "democratic" society. Note that this is coming from a main-stream Jewish publication and isn't an isolated view.
    - Ms. Marcus was a member of the Communist Party and so were here parents. In the context of the article this is even implied as an expression of Jewish identity.
    - She worked in information and finance related areas on prominent positions.
    - Note the profound influence of "the Holocaust".

    Where ever you find Communism, you will find Jews, propagating it.


    I also find it very hilarious that they are making the statement that she promoted "Democracy". I have as yet to see any of your Jewish Leftist promote anything but one sided oligarchy with themselves at the top. I would say they are the socialist worm that eats away at any democracy to the point of destruction.

    One sided hypocrisy, and self serving greed, to the core.

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