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Thread: Atheism And The West

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    Well, I personally believe in the separation of the Church and State, but that has been skewed to mean Religion and State, of which, there is a difference. The man actually attributed with the quote, "Separation of Church and State", that being Thomas Jefferson, was attributed, as were many of the founding fathers as saying that a state not guided by the morality and belief of religion, was doomed to fail.

    "The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart." - Thomas Jefferson
    Ein Kampf, Ein Sieg! Fur Prussia!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadski View Post
    Well, I personally believe in the separation of the Church and State, but that has been skewed to mean Religion and State, of which, there is a difference. The man actually attributed with the quote, "Separation of Church and State", that being Thomas Jefferson, was attributed, as were many of the founding fathers as saying that a state not guided by the morality and belief of religion, was doomed to fail.

    "The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart." - Thomas Jefferson
    Well that's certainly a matter of opinion and perspective but seeing your chosen religious belief on your profile I can see why you would believe that although for me I must disagree entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jupiter View Post
    Yes and no.

    I think that modern atheism is, due to it being almost entirely a reaction to modern religion, just as religious as the systems it opposes.

    For this reason anything associated with modern expressions of atheism, including the term itself, is pretty much useless.

    Anyone who is truly dedicated to non-theistic philosophy will look into Traditional non-theistic worldviews, but those folks are rare compared to the multitude of anti-religious troublemakers that populate the world today.
    Well I'll give you your share by agreeing that there is a bit of zealous bravado when it concerns modern atheism to which many of the modern atheist movement will intentionally persecute those who have any semblance of religious belief by all accounts of mockery.

    I'm one of those atheists that doesn't intentionally go out of my way seeking to do all of that although I'm not afraid to share my atheism in expressing myself either.

    Even as a atheist I understand why religion exists existentially, religiously, socially, and politically in that despite believing it all to be a nonsensical charade through beliefs myself I do understand it's subtle simplistic forms of usefulness in why there are those who wish to keep it alive.

    Infact I'm fine with all of that in that one cannot deny it's intriguing mind boggling usefulness politically,socially, and existentially amongst specific individuals it caters to.

    [People ultimately will believe in anything they want to whether it be absurd or horrendous in that is just a fact of life where there is no level of arguement that will stop all of that.]

    I admit I'm not comfortable with religion but I understand full well that there is no getting rid of it either where I therefore tolerate it with a mild neutral disdain.
    National Socialism is the only salvation for Germanics and Europids everywhere. Capitalism, libertarianism, and communism is the enemy.

    National socialized collectivism must prevail over radical individualism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jupiter View Post
    Yes and no.

    I think that modern atheism is, due to it being almost entirely a reaction to modern religion, just as religious as the systems it opposes.

    For this reason anything associated with modern expressions of atheism, including the term itself, is pretty much useless.
    If you mean that the only reason you consider it a religion is because it is a reaction to modern religion, I disagree. If, however, you also mean that the atheists of today have too much other stuff (like AlaricLachlan explained) that they believe in, I agree that you can call it a religion or at the very least: Just as bad as a religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev. Jupiter View Post
    but those folks are rare compared to the multitude of anti-religious troublemakers that populate the world today.
    With "troublemakers", do you mean the people who challenge the religious believes of other people? Why is this so wrong? If these believers openly express their opinions, should they be immune to critic? I think that people should be prepared to have their believes questioned if they publicly display them.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaricLachlan View Post
    They are only I take it a step further in calling them delightful fairy tales used to lull people to sleep and into mental submission.

    For me the real issues isn't about what is right, wrong, good, and evil as those are only ridiculous cultural fables in that the real crux of the matter revolves around control or conformity by enforcement to implemented norms against deviancy.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaricLachlan View Post
    Most people confuse simple interactions and mechanisms with moral belief where in all actuality there is no morality or ethics involved beyond hearsay followed by devoted faith of a given issue.

    No it would not benefit society but that still doesn't posit there are definate ends in universal existence that can be defined or embraced in positing a positive and negative to every instance of social interaction either.
    Morals don't have to be absolute to be morals. Like killing because you don't like someone can be wrong but killing because you need to save your life can be right.

    I personally think, like I said, that this is just survival instinct, hard-wired into us to make sure that societies can function but these things seem to be included in the definition of morals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by locc View Post
    If you mean that the only reason you consider it a religion is because it is a reaction to modern religion, I disagree. If, however, you also mean that the atheists of today have too much other stuff (like AlaricLachlan explained) that they believe in, I agree that you can call it a religion or at the very least: Just as bad as a religion.



    With "troublemakers", do you mean the people who challenge the religious believes of other people? Why is this so wrong? If these believers openly express their opinions, should they be immune to critic? I think that people should be prepared to have their believes questioned if they publicly display them.



    I agree.



    Morals don't have to be absolute to be morals. Like killing because you don't like someone can be wrong but killing because you need to save your life can be right.

    I personally think, like I said, that this is just survival instinct, hard-wired into us to make sure that societies can function but these things seem to be included in the definition of morals.

    Morals don't have to be absolute to be morals.
    There's no such thing as moral or ethical objectivism where instead all beliefs are merely reduced to subjectivism,relativism, and solipsism.

    There is no absolute standard or ideal.

    There is only the power of will.


    Like killing because you don't like someone can be wrong but killing because you need to save your life can be right.
    For me that sentence doesn't make any sense because it only alludes to a fictional cultural script in it's interpretations of specific actions.

    For me there is no right, wrong, good, and evil when it concerns killing.

    [For me all those words revolve around fictional cultural scripts and metanarratives.]

    Killing is a natural phenomena and conflict of existence when it concerns life.

    Given a specific situation killing can become necessity depending where you are at in life.




    I personally think, like I said, that this is just survival instinct, hard-wired into us to make sure that societies can function but these things seem to be included in the definition of morals.
    You will find that dogma of all kinds like that of morals or ethics is alot like those of religion where there are specific classes of people that try to make sure their emblems keep being worshipped within society merely for control.

    It's no surprise why the upper classes like all thought devoted to morals and ethics for it is they who command that of law.

    [They of course fool most people but not all.]
    National Socialism is the only salvation for Germanics and Europids everywhere. Capitalism, libertarianism, and communism is the enemy.

    National socialized collectivism must prevail over radical individualism.

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    We probably just didn't fully understand eachother because I have the exact same opinion about morals like you; I find myself agreeing with that whole post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaricLachlan View Post
    Well that's certainly a matter of opinion and perspective but seeing your chosen religious belief on your profile I can see why you would believe that although for me I must disagree entirely.
    And I can be perfectly happy knowing that, I am not one of those "Shove my views down your throat" Christians, which annoys me more then anything. I personally don't believe God actively participates in our daily life, I am far happier to do it with my own will then asking for help, it's also that I doubt he cares wether or not I make that traffic light, or if they still have a copy of the new film at the store.

    Anyway,what I can tell from talking to you some, is you feel the same way, although Athiest, you have the same opinion of "I'll tell you what I believe if you ask, but I don't care what you believe".

    My two cents?
    Ein Kampf, Ein Sieg! Fur Prussia!

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