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Thread: Was the Funnelbeaker Culture Indo-European?

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    Was the Funnelbeaker Culture Indo-European?

    Were they Indo-European (language, culture, and so on) or not? I have read that the generally accepted view of Indo-European language/cultural expansion into Europe began with the Pontic Steppe or "Forest Steppe" people. The "Kurgan hypothesis." This westward expansion from the east supposedly brought the Indo-European languages and cultures, which collided with the "native" non-IE I1/I2 groups. I believe it either led to or already was the 'Corded Ware' culture, though that may not be entirely correct. They are regarded as having been heavily or completely R1a (originally). The R1b group would then have come westward shortly after, though from further south. I believe it was said that all of this began roughly 5k years ago (3k BC). Under this theory, the Funnelbeaker peoples would then have been non-IE, and clearly I1?

    This expands into other confusions. Basques are regarded as the "oldest or most ancient group in Europe," they speak a non-IE language, and yet they are almost entirely R1b. This doesn't make any sense. The only way that could be possible would be if R1b had been in Europe for eons longer than generally thought. Otherwise, Basques must not be who they are said to be, or their male-lineage was almost completely replaced by R1b males (who came much later), yet somehow the non-IE language remained. Furthermore, I typically see it said that those of the British Isles are primarily the descendants of "ancient neolithic farmers," yet they are also primarily R1b, so again, how is this possible?

    From everything that I have seen, the Bell Beaker or "Megalithic" peoples, the Funnelbeaker peoples, and so on, all seem to have been the archaic I's (I1/I2), who were presumably the "native" or "indigenous" Europeans. Weren't these people the descendants of the early European Cro-magnons? Wouldn't this then mean that the so-called Aryan people were of the R1a and R1b tribes? Excuse my ignorance, but please enlighten me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Einarr View Post

    This expands into other confusions. Basques are regarded as the "oldest or most ancient group in Europe," they speak a non-IE language, and yet they are almost entirely R1b. This doesn't make any sense. The only way that could be possible would be if R1b had been in Europe for eons longer than generally thought. Otherwise, Basques must not be who they are said to be, or their male-lineage was almost completely replaced by R1b males (who came much later), yet somehow the non-IE language remained. Furthermore, I typically see it said that those of the British Isles are primarily the descendants of "ancient neolithic farmers," yet they are also primarily R1b, so again, how is this possible?
    A reasonable hypothesis about the Basque situation is that the current Basques descend from an invading stock of males who took native females for wives, these females being responsible for the transmission of the Basque culture.

    The latest dates of the R1b subtypes simply do not support a Paleo-Euro origin. Then again the dates on R1b can't be all that reliable since they change more often than I change me britches. lol R1b needs to be organized bad.
    Lineage migration - Hatfield, Yorkshire, England ->Stainforth, Yorkshire, England ->Whitgift, Yorkshire, England->Blacktoft, Yorkshire, England->Mecklenburg County, Virginia ->Rutherford County, North Carolina ->Overton County, Tennessee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Einarr View Post
    This expands into other confusions. Basques are regarded as the "oldest or most ancient group in Europe," they speak a non-IE language, and yet they are almost entirely R1b. This doesn't make any sense. The only way that could be possible would be if R1b had been in Europe for eons longer than generally thought. Otherwise, Basques must not be who they are said to be, or their male-lineage was almost completely replaced by R1b males (who came much later), yet somehow the non-IE language remained. Furthermore, I typically see it said that those of the British Isles are primarily the descendants of "ancient neolithic farmers," yet they are also primarily R1b, so again, how is this possible?

    A lot of Geneticists think that R1b had/has been in Europe since before the
    last Ice Age. R1b carriers in Northwest Europe(Irish,Basques,Picts)
    etc. "wintered" in Spain during the last Ice Age and the "Germanic" folk
    (Dutch,Frisian,Germans)etc.moved southeast and wintered near the Black
    Sea.This is also where the genetic mutation "U106/S21" occurred.
    This genetic mutation is what seperates an Irishman from a German so to
    speak.

    The history of the R1b gene is a confusing one.Someday I hope they can
    unravel it's story for good!


    Oh,I found this link.It says that R1b in Europe is Paleolithic.

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2010/0...ope-is_02.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWolf View Post
    A lot of Geneticists think that R1b had/has been in Europe since before the
    last Ice Age. R1b carriers in Northwest Europe(Irish,Basques,Picts)
    etc. "wintered" in Spain during the last Ice Age and the "Germanic" folk
    (Dutch,Frisian,Germans)etc.moved southeast and wintered near the Black
    Sea.This is also where the genetic mutation "U106/S21" occurred.
    This genetic mutation is what seperates an Irishman from a German so to
    speak.

    The history of the R1b gene is a confusing one.Someday I hope they can
    unravel it's story for good!


    Oh,I found this link.It says that R1b in Europe is Paleolithic.

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2010/0...ope-is_02.html
    Interesting, thanks for linking that. So, if that is to be true, then I suppose one should instead ask, Who were the Aryans? Who brought Indo-European language and culture into Europe?

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    Genetics & Kultur

    There is a fundamental error taking place here. That is, "Genetics is NOT Kultur and Kultur is NOT Genetics". The R1b haplogroup may very well come from the "overwintering" in S.W. Europe during the last glacial age along with the Basques whose language is not I.E, but have an R1b haplogroup. After the retreat of the glaciers, the R1b grouping resettled Northern and Western Europe and merged with the R1a and the U/K groupings that were in Central Europe already or from the East. This merging of different Kultural groups resulted in a synthetic Kultur over time which eventually became Keltic, Germanic, etc. One must understand that these European Migrations occured during the Neolithic time frame and these people didn't leave behind an extensive written history about themselves or their Kultur. They just simply left behind some broken pottery and other artifacts. Which leaves it to us to hypothsize and postulate about it all...

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    Haplogroup I tends to get ignored. It is 22,000 years old and is exclusively european. Explain to me how it is not the original european haplogroup.

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    There must be skulls you can use to get an approximation of the races.
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

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    Skulls and other mis'c. bones

    Yeah... probably, there's the Iceman up in the Alps and some of the Bogmen that have been found. But as for skull dimensions determing specific Kultur and tribe, that's going to be a bit of stretch...

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