Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Stonehenge Was Built by Germanic Beaker Tribes

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Last Online
    Thursday, February 10th, 2011 @ 12:19 PM
    Status
    Prolonged Absence
    Ethnicity
    English
    Country
    England England
    Gender
    Posts
    481
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Stonehenge Was Built by Germanic Beaker Tribes

    I don't know if this is true or not but the only other stone circles I have seen have been in Sweden.

    It's wrong to assert that the Welsh are the "true Britons." They weren't the first occupants of the island we now call Britain. A group of Germanic tribesmen known as the "Beaker People" were living here 2000 years before the first Celts or "Britons" arrived.

    The Beaker People were followed by other Germanic tribesmen, also from the Rhine Valley, whom we call the "Battle-Axe People" because of their distinctive weapons. It was one of these two groups who built Stonehenge, which was completed a good 1000 years before the first Celts arrived.

    The Celts seem to have come in two waves, one in about 1000 BC and the second in about 850BC.

    After killing the Germanic tribes, they took control of everything south of the Clyde and the Firth of Forth. The Picts and the Scots later occupied the territory north of these waterways, before the Picts settled in the Cheviot Hills.

    Through extensive archaeological research it is believed that Stonehenge was built in three stages by three different cultures:

    Construction 1 built by a Secondary Neolithic culture called the Windmill Hill People ( 3500 - 2600 BC ).

    The first Stonehenge construction consisted of large stones built on a ditch and bank enclosing a ring of 56 pits - also named the Aubrey Holes after John Aubrey who discovered them. The Windmill Hill people were probably named for the area of Windmill Hill, Avebury, Wiltshire where some of the stones for Stonehenge originated. Another famous stone circle is situated in Avebury

    Construction 2 built by the Germanic Bell Beaker people, named for their pottery drinking cups ( 2600 - 2510 BC )

    Second stage history of Stonehenge construction saw the addition of ton blue stone megaliths ( huge stones ). A Welshman, HH Thomas of the Geological Survey, was the first to demonstrate the stones had been transported from the Preseli mountains in southern Wales, over 200 miles away. But upon the discovery of a similar stone in a nearby earthen barrow the theory emerged that the huge stones might have been deposited by glaciers in the area.

    Construction 3 built by the Beaker-descended First Wessex People( 2600 - 2510 BC )

    The third stage history of the Stonehenge construction saw the addition of 30 sandstone, 25 ton, upright stones called Sarsens were positioned in a circle and capped with morticed stone lintels.

    http://forums.canadiancontent.net/hi...-ocupants.html
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A9564942


  2. #2
    Senior Member Fyrgenholt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Online
    Friday, February 24th, 2012 @ 12:27 PM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    English
    Ancestry
    Isles
    Subrace
    Pred. Atlantid
    Country
    England England
    State
    Lancashire Lancashire
    Gender
    Posts
    502
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    I'm not sure how true this is. Where the Beaker people Germanic, or where they pre-Germanic? I didn't even know they where Indo-European. Assuming this is true, though, would it be a solid contribution to the argument that England was never Celtic? Emphasising the almost total lack of Celtic place names in England and of Celtic contribution to the English language. I believe there is also a much greater number of Germanic archaeological finds in England than there are Celtic.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Wynterwade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Online
    Monday, February 6th, 2012 @ 08:41 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Ancestry
    England, Germany
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Country
    Vinland Vinland
    Gender
    Posts
    491
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    "The Celts were not a race, but a group of peoples, or, to speak more accurately, a group of societies. Language is one of the clearest and truest characteristics of societies." - Henri Hubert

    My own opinion of this is that the people who built Stonehenge were probably either Proto-Celtic or Pre-Indo-European.

    Why do I think this? Because the Germanic tribes were still stuck in Norway, Sweden and Denmark and were only begining their expansion down into Germany during this time. Here is a picture of the Germanic tribes from 750BC to 1AD.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Also here is information on the Bell Beaker Culture the paper said was Germanic but actually isn't.
    "Bell Beaker is often suggested as a candidate for an early Indo-European culture, more specifically, an ancestral proto-Celtic [12] or proto-Italic or Italo-Celtic culture." And here is the map of the Beaker people ca. 2400 – 1800 BC.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Also I looked up Windmill Hill culture and couldn't find any information about them being Germanic. I think they are not sure which group they belong to with any certainty. I wouldn't be surprised if the people who built Stonehenge are a Non-Indo-European language group like the Basques. And I wouldn't be surprised if they were a Proto-Celtic group like the Bell-Beaker Culture is hypothesized as being. I would be surprised if they were Germanic.

    Which one did they belong to? We don't know for sure but they were whatever that one culture was that lived there.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Beaker_culture.png 
Views:	36 
Size:	72.9 KB 
ID:	106427   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Germanic_tribes_(750BC-1AD).png 
Views:	32 
Size:	10.3 KB 
ID:	106428  

  4. #4
    Senior Member wittwer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Online
    Monday, July 18th, 2011 @ 10:25 PM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Ancestry
    English, Irish, German, Swiss, Austrian
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Illinois Illinois
    Location
    Chicago
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Occupation
    Engineer
    Politics
    Pragmatic Pluralist
    Religion
    Christian Deist, Lutheran
    Posts
    719
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post

    Stonehenge

    The following is a conversation overheard at Stonehenge:

    Anglosaxon-1 "Interesting pile of rocks". "What's it for"?

    Anglosaxon-2: "I don't know... let's go back to London".


  5. #5
    Eala Freia Fresena
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Ocko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last Online
    Monday, July 29th, 2019 @ 11:24 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Friese
    Ancestry
    Friesland
    Subrace
    Nordid
    Country
    United States United States
    State
    Montana Montana
    Location
    Glacier park
    Gender
    Family
    Married
    Occupation
    selfemployed
    Politics
    rightwing
    Religion
    none/pagan
    Posts
    2,924
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    20
    Thanked in
    18 Posts
    Britain was not always an Island. During different temperatures the sea level raised and fell.

    the last Ice age peaked around 11000 years ago. People used the land bridge to settle in what later became the Island of Britain.

    Around that time Scandinavia was covered with Ice and not inhabitated by human life.

    The people who moved into Britain and Scandinavia had most likely the same ancestry. What name they had I don't know.

    The first Stonehenge is most likely built by the windmill culture
    looked like this:



    2 earthrings and 56 holes (called Aubrey holes today)

    In Germany you have a similar structure from around 1800 BC, called the Goseck observatory



    It should be reasonable to assume that those people came from similar cultures though the time difference is huge Stonehenge first phase: 3100 to 2700 BC and Goseck 1800 BC.

    So I would argue that the first phase was built by germanic people

    The second phase was done by the beaker people. They added wooden structures. Not much is left from them but holes. Those hole don't give a clear picture as they are pretty irregular. Archaelogists believe there had been a round building in the center of stonehenge but nothing is sure about this.

    The 3rd phase:

    The third and final peoples at the Stonehenge site are the Wessex Peoples, who arrived around 1500 BC (Schrieber, 30), at the height of the Bronze Age. These people were one of the most advanced cultures outside the Mediterranean during this period. Since their tribal base sat where ridgeways, or ancient roads, met, they became skillful and well-organized traders, controlling trade routes throughout Southern Britain. Though this tribe saw great wealth, it was concentrated in just a few members of the society. It is possible that they were responsible for the bronze dagger carving recently found on one of the large sarsen stones. The strange thing about these peoples is their intelligence. They used greater precision in their calculations and construction than anyone thought these ancient peoples were capable.


    what we see here at phase 3 are some additions:
    A ring of 30 giant gates in a circle a horseshoe of 5 huge gates, the Z and Y hole rings

    My assumption that the Wessex people who arrived around 1500 BC were germanic people is derived on a few arguments.

    Let's look at one

    The weekdays Monday,Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday are presumably germanic.
    Monday : Day of the Moon
    Tuesday: day of Tiu
    Wednesday: day of Wodan
    Thursday: day of Thor
    Saturday: day of Saturn
    Sunday: day of the Sun

    We can find relationships between the weekdays and stonehenge.

    for example if we consider the slaughter-stones, the south/north barrow and the station stones we can see that if we count the left slaughter-stone as Monday, the first station stone in the lower right corner as Tiusday, the southbarrow as Wednesday, the next station stone as Thursday, the north barrow as Friday and the last slaughterstone as Sunday, we get the following similarities. Between the slaughterstones (Monday,Sunday) the light falls in on daybreak, the Moon and the Sun are the 2 brightest elements on the sky and bring light, the north barrow and southbarrow are both elevated, they represent Wodan and Frigg as the highest among the Aesir, they also a couple and thus married and marked as such.

    Saturday is to commemorate Saturn, another celestial element. Saturn is the 6th planet and it takes about 30 (earth-) years to travel one time around the sun. this compares to the 6 stones in this circle and the 30 gates which are erected more innerly.

    Out of this argument (there are more) I deduct that it refers to the same cultural idea expressed in different ways, one as a stone circle the other to measure time through weekdays.

    Therefore I think that the Wessex people have been germanic.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	stonehenge_map.jpg 
Views:	45 
Size:	138.5 KB 
ID:	106429   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Goseck_002.jpg 
Views:	41 
Size:	156.7 KB 
ID:	106430   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Stonehenge_phase_one.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	135.8 KB 
ID:	106431  
    weel nich will dieken dej mot wieken

  6. #6
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    OneWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Online
    Saturday, August 25th, 2012 @ 09:50 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    Vinland Vinland
    Location
    Tulsa,Oklahoma
    Gender
    Age
    42
    Posts
    773
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2
    Thanked in
    2 Posts
    My question I have for you guys is what is really the difference between the
    Germanic people and Celts?The word Teuton pronounced Tweeton,is a Celtic
    word.When the Romans fought the Tuetons and Cimbri in 113 B.C.,Plutarch
    Caius Marius tells us the name of the leader of the Cimbri and his name was
    Boiirix(Boiirex).This name translates to "King of the Boii" a Celtic Nation.
    So we are dealing with a Celtic,not Germanic,Prince here.

    So if the Bell Beaker created Stonehenge,which I believe they did,since they
    have found the pottery and the little Bronze dagger that the Bell Beaker folk
    are known for,that means they are more than likely Proto-Celts.
    Since Celts came from southern Germany,how are they not Germanic?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Wynterwade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Last Online
    Monday, February 6th, 2012 @ 08:41 AM
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Ancestry
    England, Germany
    Subrace
    Atlantid
    Country
    Vinland Vinland
    Gender
    Posts
    491
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    how are they not Germanic?
    You have to understand that Germany wasn't always Germanic. The southern Hallstatt Cultures and La Tene Cultures were Celtic. Overtime the northern Germanic expansions faded away the Celtic culture of southern Germany.

    Yes genetically there is probably a blur in southern Germany as to "what percentage is Celtic" (Native southern German) and "What percentage is Germanic" (Scandinavian) genetically. I haven't seen any geneticists do any studies on this topic so I cannot say how blurred genetically it is.

    Also the definiton of "Celtic" is this...
    "The Celts were not a race, but a group of peoples, or, to speak more accurately, a group of societies. Language is one of the clearest and truest characteristics of societies." - Henri Hubert
    They are not a race (the Celtics once stretched from Turkey to Ukraine to Spain to Ireland), but share a common language.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Angelcynn Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Last Online
    Thursday, March 1st, 2012 @ 07:34 PM
    Ethnicity
    English
    Subrace
    Anglo-Saxon
    Country
    England England
    State
    Essex Essex
    Location
    London
    Gender
    Politics
    National Capitalist
    Religion
    Protestant
    Posts
    868
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1
    Thanked in
    1 Post
    Here's an interesting alternative look at what Stonehenge may have been used for:

    Stone Henge
    I am Ripper... Tearer... Slasher... Gouger.
    I am the Teeth in the Darkness, the Talons in the Night.
    Mine is Strength... and Lust... and Power!
    I AM BEOWULF!

  9. #9
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Barreldriver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    Tuesday, March 27th, 2012 @ 02:56 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    Confederate States Confederate States
    State
    Tennessee Tennessee
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Posts
    531
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    Ummm Bell Beakers as Germanic?

    The earliest Beaker materials are in Sardinia around 3500 BC, Iberia being around 2900 BC, around 2500 BC you have Beakers in Central Europe, Ireland, and Britain, by 2350 BC you have Beakers as far as Jutland, Denmark.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_beaker

    You don't have Germanic languages outside of North and North Central Europe until after well after 2000 BC as the farthest south the Proto-Germanics migrated in the second millennium BC was North Central Europe, far out of the range of the Bell Beaker homelands.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_language

    How can the Bell Beakers be Germanic if they are existing, in greatest numbers, farther south than North and North Central Europe at a date that is earlier than the formation of Proto-Germanic?

    At the time of the Beakers Proto-Celtic was beyond established "Gray and Atkinson estimated a date of 6100 BP (4100 BCE) while Forster and Toth suggest a date of 8100 BP (6100 BCE), but such early dates are not generally accepted. Both these dates are subject to considerable estimating uncertainty, perhaps +/-1500 years"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Celtic_language

    Even with a 1500 year margin of error Proto-Celtic is still older than Germanic and has had an opportunity to spread among the homelands of the Bell Beakers at a very early date.

    So you are going to say with a straight face that Sardinians and Iberians as the forerunners of the Bell Beaker culture were Germanics before the Germanic languages even existed outside of Northern Europe?

    It is much more likely that the Bell Beaker culture was spread into Britain by non-Germanic speakers from Southwestern Europe and/or Central Europe around 2500 BC, not by Germanics who hadn't even made it outside the vicinity of the North Sea at the time (the farthest South being Denmark, well outside the range of the Bell Beaker operations at the time).

    On another note, those Danish Bell Beakers, it is true that Proto-Germanic existed in the region at the time of the Danish Beakers however these Danish Beakers logically would not be of the native Proto-Germanic stock, rather non-Germanic invaders judging by the abundance of daggers and archery artifacts with the lack of pottery artifacts unlike what is found in other Beaker sites. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_beaker

    It is a huge clue when there is an abundance of martial artifacts with a much lesser number of pastime artifacts that the artifacts in question were brought with military's, and in the instance of the Danish Beakers, having non-native Danish military artifacts in Denmark suggests what? Invasion of some sort, in this case invasion was conducted by Bell Beakers of a non-Germanic Southern European origin and/or Central European origin.

    And these Danish Bell Beakers could not have been those who settled in Britain as these Danish Beakers weren't around until 2350 BC, the British Beakers had been around since 2500 BC. Simple math.
    Lineage migration - Hatfield, Yorkshire, England ->Stainforth, Yorkshire, England ->Whitgift, Yorkshire, England->Blacktoft, Yorkshire, England->Mecklenburg County, Virginia ->Rutherford County, North Carolina ->Overton County, Tennessee.

  10. #10
    Funding Member
    "Friend of Germanics"
    Skadi Funding Member

    Barreldriver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Online
    Tuesday, March 27th, 2012 @ 02:56 AM
    Status
    Available
    Ethnicity
    Anglo-American
    Country
    Confederate States Confederate States
    State
    Tennessee Tennessee
    Gender
    Family
    Single adult
    Posts
    531
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    0
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3
    Thanked in
    3 Posts
    Another take on it:

    "Beakers arrived in Britain around 2500BC, declined in use around 2200-2100BC with the emergence of food vessels and cinerary urns and finally fell out of use around 1700BC (Needham 1996). The earliest British beakers were similar to those from the Rhine (Needham 2005), but later styles are most similar to those from Ireland (Case 1993). In Britain, domestic assemblages from this period are very rare, making it hard to draw conclusions about many aspects of society. Most British beakers come from funerary contexts."

    "Beakers are found in large numbers in Ireland, and the technical innovation of ring-built pottery indicates that the makers were also present.[41] Classification of pottery in Ireland and Britain has distinguished a total of seven intrusive[42] beaker groups originating from the continent and three groups of purely insular character having evolved from them. Five out of seven of the intrusive Beaker groups also appear in Ireland: the European bell group, the All-over cord beakers, the Northern British/North Rhine beakers, the Northern British/Middle Rhine beakers and the Wessex/Middle Rhine beakers. However, many of the features or innovations of Beaker society in Britain never reached Ireland."

    "During the Bell Beaker period a border runs through southern Germany, which divides culturally a northern from a southern area. The northern area focuses on the Rhine area that belongs to the Bell Beaker West Group, while the southern area occupies the Danube river system and belongs to the homogeous East Group which overlaps with the Corded Ware Culture and other groups of the Late Neolithic and of the earliest Bronze Age."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_beaker

    This is suggesting that the British Beakers first arrived from the North and Middle Rhine, the Rhineland Beaker bringers again not Germanic because at the time of their existence (2600–2550 BC) Proto-Germanic was not spoken farther South than Denmark. It wouldn't be until after 1200 BC that the Germanic languages reach farther South, well after the Bell Beaker makers arrived in Britain.

    These Rhineland Beakers were brought in some number from Britain into Ireland, though eventually there was a shift where Irish Beaker styles began to take dominance in Britain over the Rhine style.

    It seems like there is a lot of trade going on between the British Isle's and the Rhineland at this time, given that there's not mention of much military artifact in contrast to the numbers of food related and funeral related pottery this suggests that much of the Beaker culture was spread by trade, possibly following the tin trade. Not much of an invasion like what would have happened with the Beaker makers who invaded Denmark (the invasion being suggested by the abundance of daggers, archer vambraces, etc... in contrast to pastime pottery).

    So for these Brits we have native Britons with Rhinelandic and Irish Beaker culture making the Megaliths. No Germanics as again the Germanic languages were still stuck too far North at this time.
    Lineage migration - Hatfield, Yorkshire, England ->Stainforth, Yorkshire, England ->Whitgift, Yorkshire, England->Blacktoft, Yorkshire, England->Mecklenburg County, Virginia ->Rutherford County, North Carolina ->Overton County, Tennessee.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 10 Lesser-Known Germanic Tribes
    By celticviking in forum Germanic & Indo-Germanic Origins
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Sunday, September 10th, 2017, 08:52 PM
  2. Inbreeding Amongst Germanic Tribes
    By Ahnenerbe in forum Germanic & Indo-Germanic Origins
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Saturday, October 1st, 2016, 08:12 PM
  3. List of Germanic Tribes
    By Boche in forum Germanic & Indo-Germanic Origins
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Tuesday, February 14th, 2012, 07:07 PM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: Wednesday, September 28th, 2011, 06:56 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •