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Thread: On Germanic Shamanism

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    Shamanism is the initiation and the initiator.
    The drug is the catalyst and is the spirit power you will travel with.
    Each plant has a spirit power which opens up the soul to its spirit.
    The spirit you must call by name and a clear intent on the soul journey when made. As you ride the bifrost bridge many colors will appear before your eyes.
    The body lies inert in the posture of death but the soul spirit travels to other dream worlds a power you bring back a gift from the spirit world.
    The world you see, will never be the same, and wisdom you will always speak for you will know the journey of death and its return.

    NO NO FEAR
    DO NOT EXCEPT DEFEAT
    AND BACK DOWN FROM NOTHING

    This is the path of the warrior.

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    Compare the two cognitive ravens with Prometheus and Epimerheus perhaps. One of whom was bound: a bit more speculatively this leads back to Hoenir and Lodhurr/Loki. It certainly involves the number three and it suggests to me a distant identity of Zeus and his brothers, at one point, with threefold Pan/Hermes and resurrecting gods of the master of animals type such as the wolf god Odhinn.

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    Svartleby: they are known to have consumed henbane not Amanita, which was rarely used by shamans though its hallucinogenic property was known. Shamans in reality were flexible in their use of entheogens think how the word soma has changed association with specific plants. Supposedly its original meaning was Ephedra, a bizarre gnetale conifer, but I still hold out for Amanita because the Vedic ritual involved urination.

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    Shamanism + Germanics = Not True

    I see alot of threads about shamanism and vikings, and Germanic people and Shamanism etc. I believe this is a wrongdoing.

    If we are to relate Germanic culture with shamanism the same should be related to Christian culture where the priests are the shamans in my eyes. Actually i think christianity releates more with shamanism.

    Wikipedia: The fourth definition identified by Hutton uses "shamanism" to refer to the indigenous religions of Siberia and neighboring parts of Asia. According to the Golomt Center for Shamanic Studies, a Mongolian organisation of shamans, the Evenk word shaman would more accurately be translated as "priest". The word "shaman" probably originates from the Evenki word "šamán," most likely from the southwestern dialect spoken by the Sym Evenki peoples. The Tungusic term was subsequently adopted by Russians interacting with the indigenous peoples in Siberia. It is found in the memoirs of the exiled Russian churchman Avvakum.

    If we where to use the word shamanism in Germanic culture, I would perfer using the word "shamanic-like"

    Germanic people have their own descriptions of "shamanic-like" people in their culture and i suggest we use them. In Norway it would be "Volve" and this was done by women, not men.

  5. #55
    This is all semantics.
    Pagan Germanic peoples certainly had "(especially among certain tribal peoples) a person who acts as intermediary between the natural and supernatural worlds, using magic to cure illness, foretell the future, control spiritual forces, etc. "; as defined by
    Dictionary.com. The Wiki definition is as it says, one of four definitions as described by Mr. Hutton, a widely renowned historian of pre-Christian and prehistoric Europe.
    The issue separating paganistic "shamans" from Christian "priests" is one of social function and religious duty. Shamanism revolves around altered states of consciousness, divination, and ceremonial rites. One could argue that a Catholic priest is no different, and in a universalist perspective of religion, quite so. The starkest difference being the use of mind-altering substances, which Christianity is more or less against, not to mention song and dance. The sober, repentant mind is the truest path to God.

    What's more is the cultural divide. Priest could denote a member of a primitive culture's spiritual caste, but no one has ever heard of the Arch-shaman of Canterbury. The words we use are colored by our civilizational upbringing of Christendom.
    The English language is full of terms that describe facets of our society or adjectives that have origins outside the European lexicon. For example the word Paradise stems from the Persian pari-daiya. Should we not use it to describe beautiful places? The strata of word-borrowing and language shifts is unceasing, especially in English, and I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. The term Shaman is perfectly acceptable to use in terms of early Germanic tribal priests and healers

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    Shamanism has no fixed definition, however as per Hutton's definition the Norse possessed shamanism as they shared their Circumbaltic culture area with Uralics. IE (Aryan) religion itself shares motifs and plots with religions across to Japan at the other end of Asia and it might be reconstructed with practices similar to Turkic and Mongolian shamanism. These might be less obvious among Mediterraneans of recorded antiquity but Odhinn is definitely a shaman similar to his Asian counterparts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drottin View Post
    If we are to relate germanic culture with shamanism the same should be related to christian culture where the priests are the shamans in my eyes. Actually i think christianity releates more with shamanism.
    Not at all. Shamanism and Priesthood are two different things. Shamans are doing rituals to deal with the lower spirits, the gods, the entities of the natural world (for mundane purposes such as healing, prosperity, victory over enemies, etc), while a priest is an intermediary between the common people and the Godhead, or the Absolute (whatever it is called in every tradition).

    Of course, it would be possible for a person to practice both at the same time, but in most cultures, the two have been separated.

    So shamanism is Occultism (a horizontal path), while priesthood is related to Spirituality (a vertical path). That is one of the many meanings of the Cross.

    There was a lot of shamanism going on in ancient European tribes, and the reason the Christians fought them was to restore devotion to the Divine, rather than to some low entities. Of course a lot of shamanic wisdom was lost in the process, but there were very ugly things also.


    Quote Originally Posted by Drottin View Post
    According to the Golomt Center for Shamanic Studies, a Mongolian organisation of shamans, the Evenk word shaman would more accurately be translated as "priest".
    This is the case in those Siberian tribes, where the shaman is also be the priest. Most of them deal with the spirits of nature and the entities/egregores, but they also recognize and worship the Godhead (most often called Tenger in Siberia, Mongolia and Central Asia (hence the denomination of Tengrism).


    Quote Originally Posted by Drottin View Post
    The word "shaman" probably originates from the Evenki word "šamán," most likely from the southwestern dialect spoken by the Sym Evenki peoples.
    This word's etymology seems to be even deeper, as an Armanist would say that 'saman' is made of the two runic root-sounds 'sal' and 'man', which (according to the kala) would roughly translate to "man of power" or "man of healing".

    This is verified also through the Buddhist tradition (which originated much further south), where a Samana, or Sramana [the -a is added behing every consonant in Sanskrit and Pali] means an ascetic and "someone who has pacified evil"...


    Quote Originally Posted by Drottin View Post
    If we where to use the word shamanism into germanic culture i would perfer using the word "shamanic like". Germanic people have their own descriptions of "shamanic like" people in their culture and i suggest we use them. In Norway it would be "Volve" and this was done by womans, not men.
    Shaman has become an accepted English word, just like the dozen of foreign words (French, German and others) that make it every year in the English language. Just like we call it a pizza nowadays and not 'flat bread pie' or anything of that kind... The wolvas are seeresses, one of the subdivisions of shamanism.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catterick View Post
    the Norse possessed shamanism as they shared their Circumbaltic culture area with Uralics. IE (Aryan) religion itself shares motifs and plots with religions across to Japan at the other end of Asia and it might be reconstructed with practices similar to Turkic and Mongolian shamanism. These might be less obvious among Mediterraneans of recorded antiquity but Odhinn is definitely a shaman similar to his Asian counterparts.
    Hence the practical importance of Tengrism, which has an unbroken tradition, to learn true shamanic techniques.

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    Shamanism is one of the oldest professions known, several cultures and civilizations practiced some form of it (some still do today). It needn't necessarily have been called "shamanism" by all those that practiced it.

    There are several mind-altering substances which can make one feel one with the universe or about to meet their "Creator", even without possessing a certain type of faith, so it could be argued that making use of hallucinogenic, psychedelic and/or dissociative natural remedies, concoctions or drugs enhanced and influenced spiritual experiences.

    If shamanism is defined as a practice of entering an "ecstatic" state with the purpose of connecting with certain spirits/forces and entering spiritual worlds with the intention of accomplishing some specific purpose, then it can be found in many religious and spiritual traditions of the pre-Christian era, e.g. animism, wizardry. It's the practice of Seiðr which was typically female, but which Odin himself practiced - and was subsequently accused of being "unmanly" for, though Seiðr was by far the only spiritual practice.

    The Fundamental Importance and use of Seidh, by Graena Vanswynn: "In Nordic History there have been two kinds of magick practiced among the peoples of the Ancient North. One being Galdr, the other being Seidh. Galdr develops one's will and self control of their conscience and environment, Galdr implements the usage of symbols for communication or divination; these symbols being Runes, staves, et cetera. Seidh, however, is about the loss of one's control of self, conscience, and environment; it is about the inhibited sumbersion of one's self into something outside the practicer's persona. Seidh has been called the Shamanism of the North. It was the Vanic Goddess Freya who first taught the art of Seidh to the Aes, specifically the Alfather Odhinn. Seidh is the original magickal art of the Wanes, thus Galdr is of the Ases..."
    Source

    In any case, there were other forms of shamanism that were much more socially acceptable for men to practice. One of the central institutions of traditional Germanic society was the band of elite, ecstatic, totemistic warriors. In earlier times these took the form of tribal militias or warbands, and by the Viking Age they had become more informal groups such as the berserkers. These were no ordinary soldiers; the initiation rituals, fighting techniques, and other spiritual practices of these bands were such that their members could be aptly characterized as “warrior-shamans.”
    Source

    Odin himself was said to possess shamanic traits or even considered a true shaman. Sorcery is one of the traits associated with Odin. Some go as far as interpreting the etymology of the name, Old Norse óðr which can be interpreted as mind, wit, soul, sense, but also inspiration, rage, frenzy, or even state of ecstasy, what relates to shamanic practices.



    The above right photo is a cave painting of an ice age proto-Teutonic Shaman in an animal skin and headdress. The painting is estimated to be 16,000 years old and was discovered in a cave in France. Modern DNA evidence suggests that the Teutonic people have been in north-western Europe for at least 50,000 years. As we emerged from the ice ages, the hunter-shaman tradition would have evolved into the warrior-wizard exemplified by the god Woden or Odin.
    "Od" in Old Norse can be translated as "Shamanic Ecstasy." And "in" means "Master." Od-In means "Master of Shamanism." According to the Norse Myths, Odin sacrificed himself on the World Tree by hanging himself upside down for nine nights. He is said to have "sacrificed himself to himself" in order to gain forbidden spiritual knowledge.
    Source

    Odin’s name can be translated as “Master of Ecstasy.” His Old Norse name, Óðinn, is formed from two parts: first, the noun óðr, “ecstasy, fury, inspiration,” and the suffix -inn, the masculine definite article, which, when added to the end of another word like this, means something like “the master of” or “a perfect example of.” The eleventh-century historian Adam of Bremen confirms this when he translates “Odin” as “The Furious.”[1] Óðr can take countless different forms. As one saga describes Odin, “when he sat with his friends, he gladdened the spirits of all of them, but when he was at war, his demeanor was terrifyingly grim.”
    Odin, like shamans all over the world,[14] is accompanied by many familiar spirits, most notably the ravens Hugin and Munin, the wolves Geri and Freki, and the valkyries.

    The shaman must typically undergo a ritual death and rebirth in order to acquire his or her powers, and Odin underwent exactly such an ordeal when he discovered the runes.

    We’ve already, albeit briefly, discussed the berserkers and other distinguished “warrior-shamans” under Odin’s patronage. This was the form of Germanic shamanism that was the most socially acceptable for men to practice.

    The other main form of Germanic shamanism is contained within the magical tradition known as seidr, of which Odin and Freya are the foremost divine practitioners. In traditional Germanic society, for a man to engage in seidr was effectively to forsake the male gender role, which brought considerable scorn upon any male who chose to take up this path. As the sagas show, this didn’t stop some men from practicing seidr anyway.
    Source

    The shamanism practiced by modern Germanic pagans is described as a blend of the ancient shamanic traditions of many of the peoples of northern Europe - the German, Norse, Anglo-Saxon, and a little Saami, Russian and western Siberian.

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    I agree, it's exoticism and a wrongdoing! Shamanism is at least in this age practiced by neopagan hippies, wicca feminists and anti-racist, world citizen heathens with dreadlocks as an excuse to do drugs with the excuse to enhance their spirituality and communicate with gods, and practice decadent behaviour like getting naked and engaging in sexual activities around fires. The same kind of people who think they can practice 'magick' and cast spells. It's a New Age phenomenon. They also have a fascination with fortune telling and gypsies. They use tarot cards and bone readings. People need to understand to draw a line between mythology, which doesn't come from myth for nothing, and reality. At least they should keep it Germanic. Why do we need to incorporate the practices of Turkics and Eskimos into our culture?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar View Post
    This is all semantics.
    Pagan Germanic peoples certainly had "(especially among certain tribal peoples) a person who acts as intermediary between the natural and supernatural worlds, using magic to cure illness, foretell the future, control spiritual forces, etc. "; as defined by Dictionary.com. The Wiki definition is as it says, one of four definitions as described by Mr. Hutton, a widely renowned historian of pre-Christian and prehistoric Europe.
    The issue separating paganistic "shamans" from Christian "priests" is one of social function and religious duty. Shamanism revolves around altered states of consciousness, divination, and ceremonial rites. One could argue that a Catholic priest is no different, and in a universalist perspective of religion, quite so. The starkest difference being the use of mind-altering substances, which Christianity is more or less against, not to mention song and dance. The sober, repentant mind is the truest path to God.

    What's more is the cultural divide. Priest could denote a member of a primitive culture's spiritual caste, but no one has ever heard of the Arch-shaman of Canterbury. The words we use are colored by our civilizational upbringing of Christendom.
    The English language is full of terms that describe facets of our society or adjectives that have origins outside the European lexicon. For example the word Paradise stems from the Persian pari-daiya. Should we not use it to describe beautiful places? The strata of word-borrowing and language shifts is unceasing, especially in English, and I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. The term Shaman is perfectly acceptable to use in terms of early Germanic tribal priests and healers
    It is a word used to describe a culture it dont belong to. A plain fact. The use of substances is not mentioned in releation to Volves and Seidr as far as i know. The use of alcohol by priest on the other hand is well known. Paradice should not be used either as it is..a persian word..

    I

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